!! 300 gallon water change onto basement floor

Willistein said:
Static head for water is 2.31psi per foot. So, if the valve is 12 feet below the surface of the display tank, the pressure is more like 28psi. I'm not sure what those PVC valves are rated for...
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Your conversion factor is right, but the units reversed :). In that example, you're a little more than 5psi.


My tank is bare bottom and I went the route of using the 1/4" HDPE or starboard I think it's called on the bottom. It was the color of sand, but the color really doesn't matter because over time, coraline or other algae will grow over it. Something to keep in mind if you go this route is that the material floats. You'll want to make sure you have some rockwork towards the open end of your display to keep it down. Some folks silicone it to the bottom of their tank to prevent it from lifting. In my case, I moved my rock structures to ~8" from the glass and that seemed to do the job.

You should be able to create a gyre in your tank with Vortechs. I would position a MP40 on each side of your rock stack on the overflow end of your tank, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. On the opposite side position a Vortech about 1/3 of the way down from the water's surface. I think a MP60 at 100% output would be way too much, but you can always dial it down or go with a MP40. I have a single MP60 on each end of my tank positioned as suggested. When it ramps up, it definitely moves the water across the entire tank. With both pumps there's a nice gyre flowing.
 
Thanks. I think that means you're suggesting 3 pumps (2 on the either side of overflow box and 1 on the open "kitchen" side)?

I'd want to try to avoid a pump stuck to the glass on the left side of the tank (kitchen side) because it is a major view pane. If I had to, I guess I could.... but I'd hate it.
 
Yes, you're right. I have my MP60 (1/3 way down from the water's surface) on the pane viewable from my kitchen as well. Although not ideal, I really creates a nice gyre.
 
Haffs09 said:
Yes, you're right. I have my MP60 (1/3 way down from the water's surface) on the pane viewable from my kitchen as well. Although not ideal, I really creates a nice gyre.
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Do those who have both MP40's and MP60's think an MP60 is necessary to push water almost 6 feet? Without ever owning either, it seems an MP40 would do it at 100%, but an MP60 could do it at lower RPM and therefore be quieter. Is this accurate? I don't want to waste money if I don't need to, but quiet operation is important to me.
 
I know Gary M uses a singe MP60 (that he upgraded from an MP40 I believe) on his 6' tank. I have a 4' tank and am considering a single MP40, but with a couple maxi-mods at the opposite end. I think you're going to want an MP60.
 
I have (2) MP60's and I'd recommend taking a serious look at Tunze at least for your kitchen side.

Someone WILL knock it off and Ecotech will NOT warranty resulting damage and there will likely be damage as only way to fasten it is using zip tie to power cord and power cord is non-removable and not robustly fastened. These units are quite easy to knock off the tank....especially with 3/4" glass. FYI if you use the thin spacer (for 1"+ tanks) it slightly helps however the pump is even noisier and the lifespan of the pump is shortened.


Also the MP60's are quite noisy and ESPECIALLY if turned up past 3-4. I've also heard an MP40 turned up and it is quitter than the MP60 although the tunze are super quiet and you can direct your flow as you wish. Granted they do take a bit of space inside the tank but at least they wont get easily knocked off and damaged.

FWIW I have mixed feelings about my MP60's regarding quality and service.
 
I had MP40's on opposing sides of a 90gal for several years and ran them at 50%. On my current tank, I only have MP60s on opposite ends of the tank. When I first set them up, I was a bit disappointed by the noise at 100% output. If I were to run them in pulse mode, it would drive me insane, but I have them gradually ramp up and down and this is much better. You do hear them, but for the volume of water the move, I think it's well worth it.

I've never used Tunze pumps, so I can compare to them, but I'm very happy the the Vortechs. I had one wetside go bad while under warranty and Ecotech replaced it without any issues.

In terms of my dry side on the exposed end of the tank, I don't use the supplied zip ties and adhesive sticker since they won't support the weight of the dry side for too long, if at all. My canopy overhangs the rim of the tank. I screwed in a couple of small brass hooks into it and ran the wire through. I have no fear of the dry side falling now.
 
Haffs09 said:
In terms of my dry side on the exposed end of the tank, I don't use the supplied zip ties and adhesive sticker since they won't support the weight of the dry side for too long, if at all. My canopy overhangs the rim of the tank. I screwed in a couple of small brass hooks into it and ran the wire through. I have no fear of the dry side falling now.
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Oooooh. I can do that, too. Thanks.
 
So I think I'll do a MP40 on the right "hidden" side and an MP60 on the open "kitchen" side. I've really thought about the Tunze, but leaning towards Vortech for the beauty and brawn factor. I'm personally OK with paying a little more for that.

The rationale for placement is that water will move from right to left because of the return lines. I figure I need something strong to push the water back rightward towards the overflow. This not an ideally drilled tank for the location and placement, but it's worked otherwise well for me.

The question is... do I need that MP40 pushing with the return line, or is the MP60 pushing back going to be enough?

As opposed to my last aquascape, I'm going to do 3 islands in the middle and bare bottom.
 
Have you ever thought about bringing your return up and over the tank vs. at the midpoint?

You could potentially run the return through your canopy to the side opposite your overflow and branch it into two returns and point them towards your overflow. You could also add flow accelerators which will increase the flow, although you may need a pressure rated pump. Place a MP40 on each side of your overflow and see how that works. You could always add an additional MP40 or MP60 to the return side if the flow wasn't sufficient.
 
Haffs09 said:
Have you ever thought about bringing your return up and over the tank vs. at the midpoint?

You could potentially run the return through your canopy to the side opposite your overflow and branch it into two returns and point them towards your overflow. You could also add flow accelerators which will increase the flow, although you may need a pressure rated pump. Place a MP40 on each side of your overflow and see how that works. You could always add an additional MP40 or MP60 to the return side if the flow wasn't sufficient.
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Have thought about it (a la Cully style on his last tank), but I want my canopy removable for maintenance and such. Plumbing through it seems like a small rebuild every time I want to remove the canopy (the way it's built).
 
Why don't you just replace the pump valve with a decent true union ball valve instead of patching the tank? I'd be more worried about one of the patches failing for some reason than the pump.
 
captain7359 said:
Why don't you just replace the pump valve with a decent true union ball valve instead of patching the tank? I'd be more worried about one of the patches failing for some reason than the pump.
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I've hated the closed loop for some time, and have always been weary. Could I do what you're suggesting, sure? But what's it going to be next time?

Sealing the bottom will give me few moving parts and less plumbing. Bonus for me. Maybe I'm being irrational and reacting based on emotion.... I'll take the risk, and sleep better the morrow.
 
Maybe use 3 large sections to seal the whole bottom? Im just wondering if smaller sections will make it harder to aquascape since you mentioned bare bottom.
 
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