36" Wide Aquarium: Metal Halide 2x 150w or 1x 250?

[Mark SF]

I am retrofitting (pun intended) metal halide lighting into a new canopy that I will be constructing and thus replacing my current LED/T5 Hybrid lamp.

I have decided to use a canopy for two reasons, one, we are getting kittens (scottish folds) and have a chaise that is close to the aquarium. This may allow them to jump up onto the Euro bracing and I don't want whiskers anywhere near this tank. If something were to happen to the aquarium I would be devastated, my GF on the other hand would probably move out if something happened to the cats. And two, I haven't found any 36" fixtures/pendants that will not only look good, but perform well for this size tank.

My tank is and will be a SPS dominant set-up, but I do like chalice corals in and around the lower light areas of the aquarium.

I have done a considerable amount of research, but I'd like to ask the MH guru's out there what you would do in my situation.

Aquarium: 36" W x 24" D x 20" T (75 Gallon)

I am leaning towards and why: My first inclination is to run two 150w HQI bulbs in a Lumenmax Elite fixture. The reflector itself is 15" x 15" x 5" so this should leave a decent margin of room inside of the canopy to mount these fixtures. I will have room for a buildmyled.com LED or T5 for actinic supplementation if necessary, or even throw in some older Kessil's (like a 350w). My thoughts are the 150w bulbs, while lower PAR, will have a very good overlap of light and have better coverage than a single 250w bulb.

My current thoughts for bulbs are Radium's or Phoenix 14k on a Lumatek selectable wattage electronic ballast. I understand that the Radiums are a lower PAR bulb, and that @ 150w this may not be ideal. I am also aware that generally speaking, the 250w bulb is a more efficient bulb in terms of lumens per watt than a 150w bulb.

So my other consideration is running a single 250w bulb with a Lumatek ballast on a larger reflector such as the Lumenmax. I will probably have enough room for the LED strip light for supplementation but my concern is the PAR being distributed well enough throughout the tank. I have a gap in my rocks in the middle of the aquarium as well. I don't think that 2x 250w are in the cards, measures out to be almost too much amperage drawn on a single 15amp breaker with the rest of my equipment, as well as too much heat. The other issue is that I don't want the canopy to be huge...I am thinking around 12" tall, but I haven't talked with my stand builder or looked into canopies that much up until this point.

I would like to be able to grow SPS just about everywhere...

Here is a photo of the tank and the rock layout:



-Mark

 

[EllisJuan]

If you are selling that Pacific Sun let me know.

 

[sirreal63]

Run the dual 150 watt Radiums, it is a decent bulb in the 150's. I ran them for a few years and found them to be excellent bulbs with more than enough par. I ran mine on M81 ballasts to get the most from the bulb.

 

[Maximus]

Hey Mark, I have a 36x30x16 tank and I'm using a floating canopy. The canopy measures 25"x19.5"x8" and houses a cheap Sunlight Supply reflector running a single 400w Radium and a pair of 24" t-5 actinic bulbs. I would definitely go the single 400w route if I were you. I have no doubt that every inch of my tank can support SPS as the light coverage is perfect.

 

[Mark SF]

Hey Mark, I have a 36x30x16 tank and I'm using a floating canopy. The canopy measures 25"x19.5"x8" and houses a cheap Sunlight Supply reflector running a single 400w Radium and a pair of 24" t-5 actinic bulbs. I would definitely go the single 400w route if I were you. I have no doubt that every inch of my tank can support SPS as the light coverage is perfect.

I am jealous of your tank and its dimensions. Really like the 30" depth, and your stand and canopy look great. How much heat are you getting from your 400w and do you need to run a chiller? My tank is a fairly constant 78-80*, we have steam heating in the apartment building and the steam pipes run through and heat up the walls next to my aquarium. I appreciate your input, it never really occurred to me to run a single 400w, but that is fast approaching my amperage limits, especially on a magnetic ballast.

Run the dual 150 watt Radiums, it is a decent bulb in the 150's. I ran them for a few years and found them to be excellent bulbs with more than enough par. I ran mine on M81 ballasts to get the most from the bulb.

What reflectors were you using and how high off the water were the bulbs? I appreciate your info, I know you contribute a lot to MH discussions. I think that due to the noise and heat (loss of energy), I am going to run an electronic ballast. I've read that the m80/m81 ballasts overdrives the Radium bulb, could you simply use the 175w setting on a Lumatek ballast to accomplish the same results?

Thanks again for the input.
-Mark

 

[Maximus]

As far as heat goes, my tank stays a constant 76-78 (gets up to 79 on hot days) all day long. I have a 4" fan retrofitted on the side of the canopy that blows air across the halides. Your climate is probably close to mine so I don't think you need to run a chiller, just add a nice fan or two in the canopy. I bet a 250w Radium would be fine if you're short on amperage. I estimate an energy usage of close to 4 amps using my SLS electronic ballast for my 400w halide.

 

[cody6766]

I ran a single 175w bulb over a 40 breeder using a lumenarc mini and had no trouble in the grand scheme of things. The edges were a little shaded, but not bad. I don't think they would have grown SPS as well as one would want, but it was a frag tank. You're working with more depth, so I'd do a single 250w or a pair of 150/175w bulbs, depending on your base preference. If you run 150w bulbs, the Phoenix bulbs look better than the Radiums, IMO. The Radiums are just too white, without the nice blues seen in the 250 and 400w versions. For 250w bulbs, I prefer the Radium, but Phoenix bulbs are definitely nice.

I"m now running a pair of 250w bulbs in lumen max reflectors over my standard 120g. I have to be careful with reflector placement or I don't get really smooth transition between the edges and the 2 lights, but it's really just nit-picking. A pair of 250s would work for your tank, but would be on the edge of overkill and you willl most likely need fans in the tank to keep things cool.

That's a lot of talk. What would I do....
I'd probably try a pair of 175w bulbs in lumenarc minis with some actinic supplementation if you need/want it. If that doesn't work, you just have to sell the bulbs and ballasts and drop some 250w bulbs in and press on.

 

[Jeremy B.]

First and foremost, what color are you after in the tank? The Phoenix and Radium in 150w DE are going to be two different colors, one you may prefer over the other. Of course other wattage lamps and brands are going to yield different colors as well.

Second, what is the main goal of the system with the sps corals for now.... Growth or maximum coloration?

Third, are you talking just a few chalices in the tank, or quite a bit where you'll need / want more shaded spots to place them?

 

[sirreal63]

What reflectors were you using and how high off the water were the bulbs? I appreciate your info, I know you contribute a lot to MH discussions. I think that due to the noise and heat (loss of energy), I am going to run an electronic ballast. I've read that the m80/m81 ballasts overdrives the Radium bulb, could you simply use the 175w setting on a Lumatek ballast to accomplish the same results?

Thanks again for the input.
-Mark

I used LumenArc III Mini's, which are a great reflector. For years I kept a 58 gallon Oceanic, it was one of my favorite tanks. I did light it briefly with a pair of 150's and 10K bulbs, but it was just too much. I ended up with using just the single 150 and it was perfect, but that was with a reflector that has great spread, not a spotlight.
This was right after it was set up.

My job moved me again about 3 months after I set up the tank so there aren't many pics of it.

The M81 is an HQI spec ballast, it does not over drive HQI bulbs, it is what they are designed to run. Running an electronic to 175 watts will slightly over drive a 150, though I did use a 175 watt ARO electronic for a few years on mine, it works but expect shorter bulb life and a more white appearance from the bulb.

Using a pair of Elites works because they are spotlight reflectors so you don't get a lot of spread of PAR. With a reflector designed for spread you can get away with one bulb, either a higher PAR 150 or a single 250.

 

[kc350twin]

I agree with Jeremy B. What color are you looking for in your tank? 20k? 14k? 10K? I cannot speak of 150w experience but I have had some recent 250w experience. I like the Phoenix on a Lumatek. It gives it a nice White/Blue hue but I like it even better flanked by two ReefBrites. In my Personal tank I just switched from LED to Halide and just love it. I have a 36x36x20 and originally thought of doing 2x250w halides in Lumenmax 2's. I found that I had 500 PAR on the sand everywhere with the light at 16" AWL. I felt that it was way too much for a mixed reef. I then chose to do 1 MH, 4 T5, and 2 ReefBrites. I have 300ish PAR up near the top and 150ish PAR on the sand with the floating canopy 17" above the water. I may drop it down or up as needed.


I can tell you that I am very happy with this combo and only run my MH for 2 hours a night. I will increase it over time. I have crisp white blue when the halide is on and the windex look in the evening. The best of both worlds for me but to each his own.

The good thing about a canopy is you can add of delete lights as need be. Maybe start with a single MH and tweak it from there.

 

[Mark SF]

I ran a single 175w bulb over a 40 breeder using a lumenarc mini and had no trouble in the grand scheme of things. The edges were a little shaded, but not bad. I don't think they would have grown SPS as well as one would want, but it was a frag tank. You're working with more depth, so I'd do a single 250w or a pair of 150/175w bulbs, depending on your base preference. If you run 150w bulbs, the Phoenix bulbs look better than the Radiums, IMO. The Radiums are just too white, without the nice blues seen in the 250 and 400w versions. For 250w bulbs, I prefer the Radium, but Phoenix bulbs are definitely nice.

I"m now running a pair of 250w bulbs in lumen max reflectors over my standard 120g. I have to be careful with reflector placement or I don't get really smooth transition between the edges and the 2 lights, but it's really just nit-picking. A pair of 250s would work for your tank, but would be on the edge of overkill and you willl most likely need fans in the tank to keep things cool.

That's a lot of talk. What would I do....
I'd probably try a pair of 175w bulbs in lumenarc minis with some actinic supplementation if you need/want it. If that doesn't work, you just have to sell the bulbs and ballasts and drop some 250w bulbs in and press on.

What is the difference, other than 25w, between the 150 and 175? Is one DE and the other SE? It looked like DE reflectors give better light dispersal, as well as a smaller footprint as the DE doesn't have the mogul which protrudes to the outside of the reflector.

I still think 500w halide + supplementation is going to be too much heat/power consumption for the tank. The other benefit I see is that if I were to purchase an electronic ballast, I don't need to buy another, the variable wattage ballasts fit all the possible wattage combinations that I am looking into: 150w, 175w, 250w, HQI.

First and foremost, what color are you after in the tank? The Phoenix and Radium in 150w DE are going to be two different colors, one you may prefer over the other. Of course other wattage lamps and brands are going to yield different colors as well.

Second, what is the main goal of the system with the sps corals for now.... Growth or maximum coloration?

Third, are you talking just a few chalices in the tank, or quite a bit where you'll need / want more shaded spots to place them?

I am currently running a Pac Sun S which is definitely on the blue side when all channels are 100%. However, when the T5's kick on, the color whitens up quite a bit and it is a lot easier on the eyes. I was talking to you about pulling the trigger on a Giesemann Matrix II, but that has changed because I need a canopy. I would really prefer a very crisp blueish white color, with the option of making it more blue with actinics. From what I understand, a Radium on an e ballast can produce this color. My problem now is that very few people run MH any longer, and all my LFS are using LEDs so I can't really see it in person. I am reaching out to you guys for that expertise. Thanks again for all the help, btw.:bdaysmile: I missed the boat on the MH experimentation over the past 15 years.

I will probably end up with a dozen chalice corals tucked away in low flow/low light areas when all is said and done. Not to mention, if I ever get any coral growth the "coral canopy" can help create these zones as well...

Priority: Coral Coloration, Coral Growth, Aesthetics.

I agree with Jeremy B. What color are you looking for in your tank? 20k? 14k? 10K? I cannot speak of 150w experience but I have had some recent 250w experience. I like the Phoenix on a Lumatek. It gives it a nice White/Blue hue but I like it even better flanked by two ReefBrites. In my Personal tank I just switched from LED to Halide and just love it. I have a 36x36x20 and originally thought of doing 2x250w halides in Lumenmax 2's. I found that I had 500 PAR on the sand everywhere with the light at 16" AWL. I felt that it was way too much for a mixed reef. I then chose to do 1 MH, 4 T5, and 2 ReefBrites. I have 300ish PAR up near the top and 150ish PAR on the sand with the floating canopy 17" above the water. I may drop it down or up as needed.


I can tell you that I am very happy with this combo and only run my MH for 2 hours a night. I will increase it over time. I have crisp white blue when the halide is on and the windex look in the evening. The best of both worlds for me but to each his own.

The good thing about a canopy is you can add of delete lights as need be. Maybe start with a single MH and tweak it from there.

I like this approach. Something like a single 250w Radium + Two A350W Kessils or LED strips...I am also considering a short time interval with the halides, or at least experimenting with 5-6 hour lighting periods, plus LED or T5 supplementation to bring it closer to 9-10 hours. That is quite a bit of PAR with the 2x 250w on the sandbed! Holy craps.

-Mark