40 Breeder Build

[The0wn4g3]

Hey guys,
I recently picked up a 40 breeder, and I've got some ideas in mind.

First off, here's a photo:

I'd like to euro-brace it like in this thread (about halfway down the page). Here is the first of my long list of questions:

What thickness and width of glass will be needed to euro-brace it safely? Seeing as it's a 40B (no center brace) would it be possible to get away with some Home Depot type glass, or will I need to find a glass shop?
What type of silicon will be needed? Will the regular GE stuff be okay?
This one makes me feel stupid, but would the bracing go on top of the tank, or in the tank? From that thread, it looks like the bracing is recessed inside the walls of the tank.
Lastly, if I decide to install a glass-holes style overflow, would there be any reason not to install the euro-bracing before drilling the back pane?

Classes start the 17th, so I've got to get as much of this tank DIY'd as quick as possible!

 

[barnett8]

I don't know any of your any other questions (sorry) but I can answer the silicone one.

GE Silicone I Window and Door is reef safe.

Good luck on the build, I love my 40 gallon Breeder! :thumbsup:

 

[The0wn4g3]

Well I was able to find out some answer after more reading through that thread. Some way I must have missed the page where he discussed the eurobracing. Looks like 1/4" thick and 2.5" wide should be plenty. From the photos, it looks like the brace is recessed. Time to break out the utility knife!

Thanks barnet8. I always wanted a 58 oceanic (36x18x20), but I was in highschool at the time so I settled for a cheap 65 (36x18x25). It was WAY too tall, who knew how annoying 5" could be, so now I've finally got as close to a 58 Oceanic as I can get without spending the big $$$. I'm hoping it ends up pretty wicked

 

[The0wn4g3]

Well, after doing some glass shopping, it seems I've got some more questions.
It looks like I'm going to need (2x) 35.4375" x 2" and (2x) 13.5" x 2" sheets to euro brace it. First, what's the difference between a "seamed" edge and a "pencil polished" and "pencil ground" edge? Second, can anyone clue me in to a decent quote for such pieces? Once website quoted me ~$70 and another quoted about $160. Also, is ceramic or tempered glass best for bracing?

 

[kwws]

I have a 40 g breader I starting to bluid my question is why brace it?

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15501957#post15501957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kwws
I have a 40 g breader I starting to bluid my question is why brace it?

Because the tank is designed to have a rim on it. If you remove the rim, you damage the structural strength of the tank. The glass is not thick enough to withstand the additional stress and you end up with 20 gallons or so, + what drains out of the tank, all over the new carpet. If one does not remove the rim, there is indeed, no need to add bracing to it.

Jim

 

[The0wn4g3]

? That doesn't help me much.

Are you telling me there's no way that I can achieve the lateral strength needed to safety support the tank with euro-bracing? Have you ever removed the trim from a tank? I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how weak it was. I cut it in the middle and lifted slightly and the corner snapped in two. Obviously, comparing a glass euro-bracing system to a flexible plastic trim is apples and oranges, but I don't see why you would recommend against euro-bracing a 40 breeder.
Rocketboy52, in the thread I mentioned, used 2.5" wide euro bracing equal to the thickness of the glass. He says he calculated a 1.25" wide bracing would be about equal to the strength provided by the center brace. I'm planning on using 2" wide bracing on a tank that is shorter, and less than half the water volume, that didn't require a center brace from the beginning. I would think my bracing would be even more overbuilt than his.

 

[sammy113]

I've seen 40B with the top rim removed without any euro brace at all... Actually that piece of plastic basically protects the glass from any hit and gives a "finish" which I don't like. What you don't really notice with it is the little movement when filled. If you measure it empty and then fillet to the top you'll see probably a 1/32" movement in the center. Don't underestimate 1/4" glass. I'd say it will work as it is but if you still want to play it safe I'd go with 1/4" glass and 2.5"~3" wide front to back INSIDE the tank. You don't really need to brace it all around. The closer the the side glass panels, the less it bends when filled. Tank is just 36" Long so the center is the most weak part. That little piece should not cost you more than $10.

I built a 25G glass tank with this dimensions: 30"L x 18"W x 12"H 1/4" Glass, rimless and all the glass cut to size cost me just $52

Also you don't really need those fancy edges. Just a little buffed or sanded so it doesn't cut you

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15502288#post15502288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The0wn4g3
? That doesn't help me much.

Are you telling me there's no way that I can achieve the lateral strength needed to safety support the tank with euro-bracing? Have you ever removed the trim from a tank? I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how weak it was. I cut it in the middle and lifted slightly and the corner snapped in two. Obviously, comparing a glass euro-bracing system to a flexible plastic trim is apples and oranges, but I don't see why you would recommend against euro-bracing a 40 breeder.
Rocketboy52, in the thread I mentioned, used 2.5" wide euro bracing equal to the thickness of the glass. He says he calculated a 1.25" wide bracing would be about equal to the strength provided by the center brace. I'm planning on using 2" wide bracing on a tank that is shorter, and less than half the water volume, that didn't require a center brace from the beginning. I would think my bracing would be even more overbuilt than his.

I was addressing his question "why brace it....." It does not affect what you wish to do ie. removing the rim, and using an alternative to the rim. UR good with the eurobrace.

Jim

 

[The0wn4g3]

sammy113 - Thanks for the input. I currently have a 38 gallon (36 x 12½ x 17 Tall) running that the trim has completely cracked down the middle at the center of the tank safely in a large garden tub. I haven't seen any bowing or signs of failure. Since the 40B is going in the living room, I want to add the extra bracing just to be safe.

uncleof6 - Ok, I see. I didn't even see kwws' post, and thought you pasted that quote from another thread I haven't read. I wasn't sure if you were suggesting the euro bracing would not be sufficient or (maybe it's been discussed before), like you said, just answering the question of no bracing at all.


Progress so far - I've got the trim off, almost all of the old silicon scraped clean, and the glass nice and shiny. Fixed a leak on my skimmer (thanks uncleof6), and cleaned out the recirculating pumps.

On the agenda for tomorrow - If possible, find a local shop to cut the glass braces. If that happens, begin installing the braces. Seal the hole in the bottom corner. And while the silicon is drying, begin drawing up some ideas for the front door, and installing a side door in the stand.