7 days of Metal Halide

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HurricaneSystem

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This is for research purposes only!

My Acropora Speciosa was not fairing well under LED.

Acropora Speciosa is normally green, a seafoam green.

This is under LED:

C8617348-4369-4D66-B381-95DB6FB86AB2-819-000000EB4917DFCE_zps3db535cf.jpg


This is 7 days under 14k, 400w Metal Halide:

9D2CE731-911C-4D8D-A338-D4034FA9FB2A-801-000000E6DB0D5D5E_zps13067240.jpg


That on/off switch of MH takes a lot of guess work out of the settings lol.
 

Allentown

New member
I'm just amazed you made it 7 days without buying new lights. ;( Joking aside man, the color issue with LEDs and SPS corals is starting to gain traction as a definite pattern so there you go. I hear nothing but success stories about lps dominate tanks with high quality LEDs and proper husbandry but that's not the case for sps.
 

Wrench

New member
Camera settings seem to be completetly different. The second photo is underexposed while the first is overexposed. Not to mention the photo was taken from a different angle. Should have taken both shots from the top down. I can appreciate your efforts here but you've got too many variables in addition to just the lights. I've seen too many LED tanks grow very colorful SPS.
 

HurricaneSystem

New member
Camera settings different? Nope, it was my iPhone 5, same one in both pics. The first pic was taken from the side, the coral is right at the side of the glass. The second is a top down, but it looks the same from either angle.

Hamilton Cayman Sun 400W Metal Halide with 14k Hamilton bulb.

Wrench, I have a Canon 70D that keeps the colors accurate. It would have not mattered in these shots. It would have still looked the same. It has made a world of difference switching from LED's.

PAR readings from the halide are a bit lower at the surface and lower in general. However, the difference in the MH and the LED is the sustenance of the PAR. It continues through the water column all the way to the bottom. The LED does not, it changes drastically from the surface to the bottom (24 inch deep tank).

This is why I think so many people have LED trouble. You set the intensity and your PAR is incredible at the surface, but then it drops drastically. So you end up either bleaching corals or corals not getting enough light. There really isn't an in between that I have found, in all settings.

I have come to a few theories on my tests over the months. I think they are game changers as well when it comes to LED. I would be willing to bet that I could put an LED fixture together with my findings and it would grow coral like crazy.

Think I am out there? Maybe, but don't count on it.
 

gveng

Active member
Are you the same guy that made a thread a while ago complaining about LEDs over your 60 gallon cube? if so... you have absolutely no credibility.
 

Allentown

New member
This is why I think so many people have LED trouble. You set the intensity and your PAR is incredible at the surface, but then it drops drastically. So you end up either bleaching corals or corals not getting enough light. There really isn't an in between that I have found, in all settings.
.

This wood indicate that the coral placement strategy is significantly different from LED to MH and one could concievably achieve nearly as much success with LEDs by simply modifying their sps to medium high instead of high in the tank....just below "ovetpoweted" level but above "par dropped off level". Or....just keep putting high demand corals at the top and turn down tbd intensity (the lps and soft stuff deeper in the tank most likely will adapt.


As has been Saud before, poor coral placement and running the lights too high or too dim could be the issue.
 

HurricaneSystem

New member
I tell you, I get a bit tired of posting these. I do it to try and help those that are struggling same as me.

Everyone has an opinion and it usually stinks. Not yours Allentown, just people should take my learning curve as advice and stop being so close-minded.
 

jimrawr

New member
People love to defend their LEDs even if there is an overwhelming amount of people who have had bad results with LED.
 

AcroporAddict

There is no substitute.
You should try a Radium 400 watt bulb instead of the Hamilton. Your color will be better. Radiums are the best halide bulb period, IMO.
 

Allentown

New member
People love to defend their LEDs even if there is an overwhelming amount of people who have had bad results with LED.

You might have a point of not for the glaring error in your use of "overwhelming". A few dozen users complaining on a reef forum does not equal "overwhelming". If it did, every electronic or mechanical device in existence today would be junk. In fact I have started noticing some what of a legitimate pattern. many are stating LEDs are superior for lps and soft dominate while there also seems to be many saying MHs are superior in sps dominate. However, you can find successful sps led tanks and you can find users who couldn't seem to get the results out of Leds no mattee what they do.

Stepping back and Looking at those results I would say that's probably exactly what you could expect. "Overwhelming" evidence against? No.....just no.
 

Ron Reefman

New member
PAR readings from the halide are a bit lower at the surface and lower in general. However, the difference in the MH and the LED is the sustenance of the PAR. It continues through the water column all the way to the bottom. The LED does not, it changes drastically from the surface to the bottom (24 inch deep tank).

This is why I think so many people have LED trouble. You set the intensity and your PAR is incredible at the surface, but then it drops drastically. So you end up either bleaching corals or corals not getting enough light. There really isn't an in between that I have found, in all settings.

I switched from 1000W of MH and 160W of t5 to an led set up with 200 3W leds driven at 2.2 W and run at about 60% power. It's been 10+ months and the coral growth has been great, coral coloration has been... OK... maybe a bit of color loss.

So I'm really interested in your theory about led PAR dropping faster than MH PAR as depth increases. You gave some clues that you have a PAR meter and did some tests? Can you share some hard numbers? I'd try it but I sold all my MH a few months ago.:fun4:

I maybe completely wrong, but the scientist in me says light photons are light photons, whether they were created by a MH fixture or an led fixture. So if you have some good solid numbers to back up your theory, I'd love to see them.
 

Allentown

New member
I switched from 1000W of MH and 160W of t5 to an led set up with 200 3W leds driven at 2.2 W and run at about 60% power. It's been 10+ months and the coral growth has been great, coral coloration has been... OK... maybe a bit of color loss.

So I'm really interested in your theory about led PAR dropping faster than MH PAR as depth increases. You gave some clues that you have a PAR meter and did some tests? Can you share some hard numbers? I'd try it but I sold all my MH a few months ago.:fun4:

I maybe completely wrong, but the scientist in me says light photons are light photons, whether they were created by a MH fixture or an led fixture. So if you have some good solid numbers to back up your theory, I'd love to see them.

Since Leds are focused light sources, what is probably Happening here Is less about magical photons that vary from lamp to lamp and more about areas where the light is spread thinner between the focused points dropping off very quickly.
 

rishma

New member
I would look at water quality issues. You have no polyp extension and bleaching at the bottom. These issues are not caused by lighting in my experience.

Best of luck.
 

rtparty

Raise The Reef!
You might have a point of not for the glaring error in your use of "overwhelming". A few dozen users complaining on a reef forum does not equal "overwhelming". If it did, every electronic or mechanical device in existence today would be junk. In fact I have started noticing some what of a legitimate pattern. many are stating LEDs are superior for lps and soft dominate while there also seems to be many saying MHs are superior in sps dominate. However, you can find successful sps led tanks and you can find users who couldn't seem to get the results out of Leds no mattee what they do.

Stepping back and Looking at those results I would say that's probably exactly what you could expect. "Overwhelming" evidence against? No.....just no.

There are a lot more than a "couple dozen" who have had problems with LEDs. There have been a few hundred at least. I'd venture to guess that thousands of hobbyists have been unsuccessful when switching over. RC is very small in comparison to how many hobbyists there are. If the truly fanatic hobbyists, like us on here, can't figure them out, then the rest of the hobby isn't either.

I've received many, many PMs from people switching back from LEDs and looking for help that never post a thing on the boards about it.
 

ganjero

saiperchémibatteilcorazon
Camera settings seem to be completetly different. The second photo is underexposed while the first is overexposed. Not to mention the photo was taken from a different angle. Should have taken both shots from the top down. I can appreciate your efforts here but you've got too many variables in addition to just the lights. I've seen too many LED tanks grow very colorful SPS.

I somehow agree with this. IME I have not seen noticeable improvement on a SPS coral in such a small timeframe.
It seems is all visual effects due to the differences on the type of light, and yes camera settings need to be adjusted according to the light you are using. I can take pictures of the same coral under LEDs, MH and T5 and if the settings are left the same for all three pictures the coral will show different shades in all three.

PS. I do prefer MH and T5 over LED for the main lighting of a SPS Tank.
 
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