Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
Bad Idea. The 2 bulkheads at the tops of the tank should be used as the drains.
72g bow lots of pics and diary
- Thread starter oh monti !!!!!
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oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
y n the hll would the top bulkheads be used as drains, nobody does that. and yes the "u" is my drain. When you test your water do u take water from the top of your tank???? no you test the bottom to middle because thats where all the nitrates and everything are.
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
thats funny because every tank u see has modular pipe coming out of the top bulk heads to direct your flow. Yes i have seen a few that use the bottom for returns but thats not a good idea i believe, because i want a lot of flow and that will do nothing but blow my sand around!
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
Well, just about every tank that does not have an overflow box does use the top holes as drains.
Why?
Because it pulls the film off the top of the water. Feeding it to your filter to be processed. This is called surface skiming.
If the power goes out, it will drain the tank only a couple inches.
There is really no reason for the foul language. I am only trying th help. I have plumbed a few tanks in my time.
Why?
Because it pulls the film off the top of the water. Feeding it to your filter to be processed. This is called surface skiming.
If the power goes out, it will drain the tank only a couple inches.
There is really no reason for the foul language. I am only trying th help. I have plumbed a few tanks in my time.
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
I think you need to do a bit more research on the matter.
Returns down low are a great idea. It will put more flow throughout the tank. You can put loc line to direct it up so it does not stir the sand.
As for the natrates being in the bottom of the tank, that is rediculous. Not sure where you heard that but, that is good ol' misinformation.
Returns down low are a great idea. It will put more flow throughout the tank. You can put loc line to direct it up so it does not stir the sand.
As for the natrates being in the bottom of the tank, that is rediculous. Not sure where you heard that but, that is good ol' misinformation.
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
im pretty sure food falls to the bottom of the tank, therefore all food "nitrates" are stored in your sand bed. yes i agree with you when you said that it will put alot of flow in my tank but haveing a closed loop will also create a lot of flow and besides its just a 72g its really not that big and a little flow is really alot
csb
New member
I think you have an interesting concept on the drain-to-sump ... I don't see any problems with that piece functioning properly.
However, here's something you might want to consider in regard to your lack of a traditional overflow box ...
Part of the concept of an overflow box is "surface skimming". A lot of proteins and other wastes rest on the surface of the water. With an overflow box, it's the surface of the water which is being drained to the sump for skimming. Without surface skimming, you aren't going to be able to effectively remove these wastes.
Surface skimming can still be accomplished without a traditional overflow box. In your case, on the inside of the drain bulkhead (in the tank) you could place a 90-elbow pointing up, then a 1.25" diameter standpipe (or whatever appropriate size for your flow requirements) with teeth cut at the water level. This would be similar in concept to a surface skimming attachment for a power filter, etc. But also, realize that the standpipe would determine your water level, so you'd have to make sure that the inlet of the standpipe is higher than the rise in your "U" drain pipe. Make sense?
Another method to address surface skimming ... probably easier than re-designing your drain ... would be to have a lot of surface agitation in the tank, so that the wastes and proteins on the surface are continually mixed into the water column. In theory, these wastes would eventually end up in the sump and skimmed.
However, here's something you might want to consider in regard to your lack of a traditional overflow box ...
Part of the concept of an overflow box is "surface skimming". A lot of proteins and other wastes rest on the surface of the water. With an overflow box, it's the surface of the water which is being drained to the sump for skimming. Without surface skimming, you aren't going to be able to effectively remove these wastes.
Surface skimming can still be accomplished without a traditional overflow box. In your case, on the inside of the drain bulkhead (in the tank) you could place a 90-elbow pointing up, then a 1.25" diameter standpipe (or whatever appropriate size for your flow requirements) with teeth cut at the water level. This would be similar in concept to a surface skimming attachment for a power filter, etc. But also, realize that the standpipe would determine your water level, so you'd have to make sure that the inlet of the standpipe is higher than the rise in your "U" drain pipe. Make sense?
Another method to address surface skimming ... probably easier than re-designing your drain ... would be to have a lot of surface agitation in the tank, so that the wastes and proteins on the surface are continually mixed into the water column. In theory, these wastes would eventually end up in the sump and skimmed.
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
no foul language just lol because im sorry that you dont understand my concept the"u" is 2" under the top of my tank and will stop the flow once the water is below that 2" With enough flow you dont have to have surface skimming . Are you telling me every tank in here has a surface skimmer? And why does everyones sand get dirty what do you think that is? It is leftovers. Y do they sell products to suck crap out of the sand is that just bs?
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
CSB i was hoping with a refuge ,sump, and alot of flow there wont have to be a lot of surface skimming. hopeing!!! lol 
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
CSB i was hoping with a refuge ,sump, and alot of flow there wont have to be a lot of surface skimming. hopeing!!! lol and if i have to i guess i will hand skim lol hate not having a seamless tank
and if i have to i guess i will hand skim lol hate not having a seamless tank
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
It's not that do not understand. I am just speaking from expreince of seting up hundreds of tanks. Many multiy tank systems.
I agree that if you over feed a tank the food will end up on the sand and cause problems, but that does not mean you need to test water from the bottom.
If your tank is so stratified that the lower levels test higher than the top of the water, you have some serious problems.
Yes, I would bet 90% of the tanks on here have surface skimming, if they are plumbed with a sump or other extrenal filter.
I agree that if you over feed a tank the food will end up on the sand and cause problems, but that does not mean you need to test water from the bottom.
If your tank is so stratified that the lower levels test higher than the top of the water, you have some serious problems.
Yes, I would bet 90% of the tanks on here have surface skimming, if they are plumbed with a sump or other extrenal filter.
RichConley
New member
You mean, other than it siphoning the tank down to the level of the bulkhead?
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
What do you know, you only have a basic drawing of plumbing that a 5th grader can do!
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
speaking from experience if a hole is drilled in the pvc there cannot be any siphon. and once water is under two inches it will be immpossible for it empty any more. there is no doubt there is a reason for surface skimming but a tank can maintain without it i'm doing it now!!! and lets see your thousand tanks you have set up!?
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
and im from Indy where are all your tanks at???
Ok just so you are reparing your house after some waterdamage take a look at your design again. I think the idea is good but the real thing won't work why... well ill tell ya. Its the same idea as those gravel vacs that are commonly used on freshwater tanks. You put the tube in the tank start the syphon and water goes OVER the edge of the tank and down to the sink bucket whatever it just goes out of the tank. Now same idea here the syphon will be started because it is lower than the water level it will work fine til you go on vacation or are at some important event and you will loose power then the water will continue to exit the tank and no water will be pumped in but since the outlet of that pipe is below the tank completely going to the sump no air will be allowed in the pipe til water is syphoned out all the way down to the bulkhead. If you don't get it you can get one of those gravel vacs and experiment or test it with tap water and be prepared to clean up. Also since you aren't surface skimming there will be a film on your surface. And if you have all this flow there is no way that perameters are different at the top than the bottom now this could be true in a very stagnent tank or something but it would have to be of some size. And please don't get so offended when people try to help.
oh monti !!!!!
In Memoriam
to those who like to argue
to those who like to argue
ok you still arent listening some of you its like talking to my ex wife or something!!!!! if you are just trying to get post go somewhere else, and to those who are trying just to promote their business by making a bunch of post go away!!!! im not explaining again how there cant be a siphon when there is a hole drilled in my pvc therefore"air" grow up and go fight with your wife or whoever [profanity] you off thank you for visiting bye :uzi:
to those who like to argue
ok you still arent listening some of you its like talking to my ex wife or something!!!!! if you are just trying to get post go somewhere else, and to those who are trying just to promote their business by making a bunch of post go away!!!! im not explaining again how there cant be a siphon when there is a hole drilled in my pvc therefore"air" grow up and go fight with your wife or whoever [profanity] you off thank you for visiting bye :uzi:
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mille239
Premium Member
Please rethink your design my friend!!!! that drain will act as a siphon if it ever completely fills up with water, which I'm afraid it will!! As soon as the power goes out, (and depending on the power of your return pump, it may even siphon more to the sump than the return pump is putting back in the tank while it's running!!!!
A check valve won't make it any better... just think when you siphon water out of the bottom of the tank, it goes up over the top of the tank height and back down, and never stops until you break the siphon. This will drain your tank all the way down to the bulkhead. Unless I'm missing a major element of your design, I'd figure out a way to pull the water from the surface, so in the event of a power outage, your water level will only fall a couple inches at most.
A check valve won't make it any better... just think when you siphon water out of the bottom of the tank, it goes up over the top of the tank height and back down, and never stops until you break the siphon. This will drain your tank all the way down to the bulkhead. Unless I'm missing a major element of your design, I'd figure out a way to pull the water from the surface, so in the event of a power outage, your water level will only fall a couple inches at most.
mille239
Premium Member
one last note after re-reading, if you plan to put an air hole in the top portion of the U-tube, you will most likely get a lot of water comming out of it unless you put a riser on it above the height of the tank. eitherway, it should be a significantly large hole, so salt does not plug it up causing the siphon effect previously mentioned. (these are just my suggestions, and I have LOTS of experience with plumbing, just see my build thread (red house))
good luck, and let us know how the test goes if you go through with it.
good luck, and let us know how the test goes if you go through with it.
