Actinic LED build review

_shorty_

New member
First, I started thinking about supplementing 2x250w MH lights with LEDs (actinic replacement) like a year ago. I THINK I'm finally going to pull the trigger.

My original post is here and I'm thankful for the help I received then. I re-reviewed all of this as I develop new plans for my build.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2262789&highlight=diy+supplemental+lighting

Initially, I was planning to retrofit LEDs into a 48" fixture and replace the 4x 65w PC bulbs currently in there. Instead, I think I've decided to sell my 48" fixture, get 2x 250w magnetic ballasts/pendants, and add the LEDs as 'actinics' as nice and neat as I can.

New LED selections are available also since last looking into this, and I'm no longer planning to run these enclosed so that changes things a bit.

Here is my plan so far, please review and provide corrections or advise where you see I need it. I've only done simple LED build in the past with no dimming capabilities. I will also add cost is a big factor in my build and I'm trying to save costs where possible.

2 x 250w DE magnetic metal halide lighting.

Add 2 x C channel (1.25" x 1.25") 36" long bars connected to the pendants somehow with the following combination of LEDs.

Looking at Steve's Luxeon LEDs:
12 x hyper violet version 1 @ 700 mA - assuming 3.6V
8 x royal blue @ 700mA - assuming 3.0V
4 x true blue @ 700mA - assuming 3.3V

Dimmable drivers: meanwell LDD-700L

I have two options for power supplies in setting these up.
Option 1) buy a EPS-65-24 which provides 24V @ 2.71 A
- 4 drivers
- 2 x 6 hyper V channels
- 1 x 8 royal blue channel
- 1 x 4 true blue channel
The problem with this setup is it gets very close to not providing enough amperage. Jumping up to a higher supply bumps up cost fairly significantly. When running @ 700mA, is that really usually running at 680mA? If so, will this setup work?

Option 2) I already have a sony laptop power supply that I could use. It's nice and enclosed and provides 19.5 V @ 4.7A
- 5 drivers
- 2 x 5 Hyper V channels
- 1 x 6 royal blue channel
- 1 x 4 true blue channel
- 1 x mixed channel: 2 Hyper Vs + 2 royal blues
Obviously, I don't like combining multiple colors into a single channel, but I assume ill still have plenty of flexibility to adjust my overall color mix with only 2 of each of the violets and royal blues on that single mixed channel. This option only saves me about 10 bucks (plus cost of shipping from another supplier), but it does give me some room for expansion if needed based on the extra power available.

I'm leaning towards option 2.

Is total color combo good?
Is total number of LEDs and drive currents good?
Do you think I'll be able to have plenty of blue and fluorescent available to supplement the MHs on magnetic ballasts? I currently run 14,000Ks on electronic ballasts, and expect the light from these to whiten with the new style ballasts.

Any other thoughts, corrections, or suggestions?
 
Anyone? I could use some input.

Another question too - what about optics/lenses. I'm running these over a 120, 2' deep. Will I need optics? if so, what do you suggest?
 
24V @ 2.71 A will be fine but use the 500mA driver for the two violet strings. Violet chips are not as heat tolerant as the others, and on C channle I'd not want to push them beyond 500mA. (this will also reduce their voltage a little and give your PSU more head room) I'd just do 6 and 6 for the RB and Blue, You'll be lucky if you can run 8 on one driver at 24v (your forgetting the LDD needs a couple of volts to operate).

search octoparts.com for the best price on the LDDs you want.

optics, assuming you will be hanging this 12"+ inches over your tank I'd go with 80/90 degree lenses if around 12" and I'd use 60 degree if hanging higher up.

Steve's optics aren't all that good on the rebel LEDs, they work fine, but are a PITA to attach and position correctly. Plus you'll need a glare shield.......

Spend the extra and get optics from RapidLED made for the Luxeon rebel LEDs (might as well buy the blue and RB from them too as it' will be cheaper to get the optics with the LED).

For the Steves violets (I like his violets better than rapid due to color) make sure they send you the optic holders for the Violets.

You'll pay shipping twice but the Steve's LEDs violets are worth it in terms of color IMHO.

BTW your avetar is fantastic "will work for frags".......... :lolspin:
 
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Zachts! I was hoping I could count on you to throw a wrench my plans. :)

So, you'd still run violets at 500? Have you reviewed the latest on Steve's LED? They say they'll run up to 1000mA. I guess I do now see that they have much lower temp ratings than the others still.

In my calcs, how much voltage should I subtract from the power supply for the driver?

Yes, I will probably hang these 10-12" above the surface, I'm guessing. Good to know about the optics.
 
Zachts! I was hoping I could count on you to throw a wrench my plans. :)

So, you'd still run violets at 500? Have you reviewed the latest on Steve's LED? They say they'll run up to 1000mA. I guess I do now see that they have much lower temp ratings than the others still.

In my calcs, how much voltage should I subtract from the power supply for the driver?

Yes, I will probably hang these 10-12" above the surface, I'm guessing. Good to know about the optics.

figure the driver will need at least 2 volts, use 3 to be safe. (most PSUs are adjustable above 24, though I did not look up the one you listed and increasing more than a volt or so will reduce max amps they can supply)

He has two types of violets. the cheaper are single core and only rated to 700mA max.
He also has a dual core version rated to 1000mA max. I'd never run the latter over 700mA long term especially on just passively cooled C channel.

For free air passive cooling use the standard single core violet and run them only at 500mA any you'll be fine (just make darn sure you buy version 2.0 other wise you'll replace them in about 3-4 months). With passive cooling I'd be hesitant to use the dual core even at 700mA as I have had some testing for a while now and so far they are fine at 950mA after just under 3 months but I can see what appears to be some darkening of the chips so I think they are over heating even on a CPU cooler when it measures just barely over ambient temperature. They don't appear any dimmer though and the new v2.0 lenses are holding up as claimed. (I have no way to confirm this as I don't have a way to measure the output but just observing their physical appearance and performance and the coral growth over the long term.) The old lenses on the v1.0 chips burn up at the 3-4 month mark.......

Just for reference passively cooled the rebels can run at max 1amp current on a 1.25 channel with spacing of 3" between LED and remain under 125 degrees Fahrenheit (with an ambient of under 80 F). Just fine for their longevity but will burn you! The violets however can't handle that long term and should be kept under 100 degrees if possible. (at lower drive currents they can handle higher temps but driving them upwards of 350mA reduces their heat tolerance as the internal heat increases exponentially and those type of chips (the button style) do not dissipate heat as well as the luxeon rebel or Cree X chips.

Violets are always the weak link as they are not as advanced yet since they are not in demand as much as Royal Blue (used in every white LED)
 
1st, thanks again for your thoughtful replies.

So, after digesting your responses so far, some questions:

1) no Rebel/Luxeon True Blue or Blue choices on Rapid. So you suggest getting the LEDs from Steve's, and the Optics from Rapid?... or getting Cree's with Optics from Rapid? From what I've read, it seems I'll probably want to stick with the Luxeons, and it won't be that much price difference.

2) So - if the plan is to run single core (version 2) violet LEDs from Steve's, what optics do you suggest? Steve's has two choices a reflector and clear plastic Optics up to 90deg. They're both not required, right? And I guess when I place the order online, I ask (in notes for my order) for them to include 'optic holders' with the violet LEDs?

3) Heat - is running with violets @ 500mA on the same C-channel heat sync as the rest of the Blues @ 700mA going to be a problem then? It'll probably be a 50-50 mix of blues and violets, so every 6 inches there'd be a blue and ever other 6 inches violet (at 3 inches apart - if that makes sense). I am flexible here... i know this is an important piece of the puzzle. Should I be looking at another form of heat sync? Or should I instead look at adding fans somehow? I believe I already have (on-hand) quiet (standard 2.5 or 3" whatever the size is) PC fans. I could mount them to the end somehow to blow across the C-channel, as well as under my MH lighting to push heat from those as well. It may not be the prettiest, but I could make it work and hopefully not look TOO bad. I believe I also have couple tiny 1" fans (that I could seal to the end of 1" square tubing to draw air through).

4) If running 4 channels of 6 LEDs each, 2 channels @ 500mA (violets); 1 channel @ 700mA (Royal Blues), and 1 channel mixed with 4 True Blues + 2 Royal Blues... Is this enough light to suppliment my MH lights?

I could use my laptop power supply, and do more channels (less LEDs per channel obviously) with more total LEDs if needed. This will obviously bump up the cost quite a bit to increase number of LEDs, but if it's needed, then it's needed.

That makes me think of another question - I haven't looked into the dimming/control of these channels yet (just haven't gotten that far). Can I control multiple channels (say two or three violet channels together for example) with a single PWM output pin from my Arduino?

Off topic - You mentioned before that you were working on the design of the penguin exibit here in Decatur. It opened at the end of the season, so we haven't been able to see it yet. But, looking forward to it! How do you think the project went?
 
1:
I tend to prefer the luxeon blues as well they run a little cooler due to lower voltage and they seem to be a little more blue than the Crees (but that has more to due with the specific bin numbers you happen to get). It will be a negligable difference for you purposes. the main thing is getting the correct optic for the chip with a holder made for that chip.

2:
use the clear plastic optics but email him first and make sure he has holders that go with them, by default he only ships what is pictured. They can be directly glued on but then you get some glare out the sides of the lense that can be bothersome for some people while viewing the tank. and if glued on you can never remove them with out risk of damaging the led. the Luxeon me reflectors work well but are much more expensive and you will still need to get creative and glue them on, either drilling out the black holder or just popping out the silver reflector and gluing it down directly.

3:
Heatwise with your planned configuration you will be just fine. The heatsink temp will likely never get over 100 degrees or not by much unless your in a very hot room in the summer or there is absolutely no air movement and it's a very hot room...... at 90 degrees ambient I have several 1" channel heatsinks that stay around 105 degrees with 15 leds running on a 4' channel @ ~450mA (these are also cheap leds and produce much more heat than the luxeon and cree do) So, Don't worry the heat issue has more to do with the drive current on those violets and any LED of that particular design.

4:
I'ts a good place to start as supplement to 500 watts of MH. You can always add more in a future phase if you end up needing additional light or start keeping an SPS heavy tank, especially if you plan ahead for a way to attach extra heatsink C channels now. My recomendation would be add more later if needed, technology will only get better and prices cheaper.

and 5:
Arduino can controll many more than 4 LDDs from a single PWM pin. Just refer to the giant LDD thread.

off topic: PM sent.
 
Once again, zachts, thank you for your responses.

Here's where I think I am at based on your feedback:
Using my 19.5V laptop power supply @ 4.7A
Still planning on using 2 x 36x1.25x1.25" C-channel heat-sinks.

Run 12 single core, Steve's true violets v2.0.
- 3 channels @ 4 LEDs per channel @ 500mA with Steve's 90 deg optics
Run 4 Steve's Luxeon true blue LEDs @ 700mA with rapid's 80 deg optics
Run 10 Rapid's Luxeon royal blue with 80 deg optics
- 2 channels @ 5 LEDs per channel @ 700mA

This option gives me 2 extra blues for the same price as buying the 24v power supply, and leaves 1.1Amps left on the power supply for some expansion if needed. I think this forces spacing will be 2.7" on the heat sink.

I'll be controlling the channels via my DIY arduino controller I have in place. I still need to figure that part out..
 
Actually you'll have more than 1.1 amps to spare as using the LDDs PSU sizing has more to do with actual watts used than with amperage of the PSU........

Plenty of power to add more latter on. In actuallity you'll probably only be drawing in the ball park of 1.8 to 2 amps from the PSU. Will give you in the ball park of the same light intensity as adding a pair of 4' T5's to the tank and if you need more light later you could almost double the LEDs capacity on the same PSU. (keep in mind you don't want to push that PSU beyond 4 amps though and under 3.5 would be ideal for long term.

Build away!
 
I have 2-250w mh above my tank. I tried the panorama 48" strip and it wasn't visible at all. I got the same results with 24 rb 3w kit from rapid. It was completely undetectable. I'm not sure how many watts it would take to sufficiently compete with mhs. Just something to consider.
 
I have 2-250w mh above my tank. I tried the panorama 48" strip and it wasn't visible at all. I got the same results with 24 rb 3w kit from rapid. It was completely undetectable. I'm not sure how many watts it would take to sufficiently compete with mhs. Just something to consider.

What color temp were your MH bulbs at the time, and electronic or magnetic ballast?
 
I have 2-250w mh above my tank. I tried the panorama 48" strip and it wasn't visible at all. I got the same results with 24 rb 3w kit from rapid. It was completely undetectable. I'm not sure how many watts it would take to sufficiently compete with mhs. Just something to consider.

Are you using optics?

I am running a RapidLED kit with 10 RB, 2 blue, 2 green with 80 degree optics to supplement my a 250W 10K XM MH and it shows up and the difference is very noticeable. I only have them at 50% at the moment. MH and LEDs are mounted 12" from the water line.

I would not recommend the green LEDs and those are going to be swapped out soon.
 
Are you using optics?

I am running a RapidLED kit with 10 RB, 2 blue, 2 green with 80 degree optics to supplement my a 250W 10K XM MH and it shows up and the difference is very noticeable. I only have them at 50% at the moment. MH and LEDs are mounted 12" from the water line.

I would not recommend the green LEDs and those are going to be swapped out soon.

Thanks for the feedback!! I was struggling with what to do here, and your feedback helps. Yes, I was planning 80deg optics for the blues and 90s for the violets. Now I'm wondering if I should scrap the MHs and go mainly LEDs with a couple T5s... Lol. I love the MHs, but could probably save some $$ in he long run with LEDs... Too big of a decision!...
 
I have seen very good growth and colors with T5s/LED combos. I don't seem to get the best of both using all LEDs on my smaller tank. The growth however is great under my MH/LED but colors are no where close to SPS I see from fellow reefers under T5s or T5/LED combos. My next experiment for the frag tank will be T5/LED for sure.
 
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