Advice Please... disappearing livestock

[mdawson]

Hello,

I purchased some live rock just before the new year and left it in a salt water bucket till the new year (1 week or so) with a water pump to airate the water... I checked the water frequently and the nitrates etc were fine. So it appears to have been cured (which is what the LFs told me initially). I put the rock in and since then I have lost first a fire fish, which at first I thought just might be hiding ... so I didn't bother too much with it. Then my blood shrimp just disappeared. He was there one day and gone the next. Now I thought that maybe he shed his shell and perhaps got caught somewhere in the rock and eventually eaten... but two weeks ago my favorite cleaner disappeared. Again he had just shed his shell so I was a little confused but figured that perhaps it's all a coincidence.. well yesterday morning I woke up and after checking the tank I found my baby clown gone!!! All the fish in my tank are fairly sociable. I have left two firefish( one with a big red scab on his head - most likely the next to go), one blue tang, one coral beauty, one abili angel, one clown and one pj wrasse. For clean up crew I have a serpent star and some snails (which by the way have been disappearing occassionally)... and three smallish hermits. OH and NOW NO SHRIMP!!!

I asked my LFS what could be the problem and they thought that it might be a hitcher that is agreesive. I haven't seen anything... and I often wait till the lights are out and check out the tank before bed. I got a mantis shrimp trap and set it up last night with a bit of raw shrimp and it didn't catch anything.

Do you think I'm on the right track? What kind of creature would be eating this much fish this quickly? I never see the fish just hanging out looking sick and my water properties are all fine:

0 am
0 nitrite
20 - 30 nitrate
84 ph

any ideas and help with ridding myself of this expensive problem would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[dreams]

i had a brisle worm in my LR that i didnt see for the longest time...one day i just happen to see it

i believe they can be really aggressive & only come out at night

thankfully, i didn't have much for him to get

 

[tanker]

What color is your serpent star?? Green ones are dangerous.

 

[mdawson]

no it's not green... just a simple black/grey one... that hides all day and really hasn't been a problem at all.

 

[tanker]

You fish could also be just dying of stress (handling before you got them, after, acclimation, ect) and then disappearing.

 

[mdawson]

Well the firefish have been in the tank since last July... so they have been around a while... the shrimp have been in the tank since about august. The newest member was the baby clown... but even he was added in January.

 

[XeniaMania]

Sounds like you have a predator of some sort. You could try freshwater dipping your rocks and see what gets flushed out. I've also recently read about hypersalinity, where the SG is like 1.033+. I haven't tried that, but I love the results I get with fresh water dipping my rock. Yes, you can lose some organisms and bacteria and such doing that, but to me, being able to flush out a predator is worth doing such. As for bristle worms, I leave the rock out over night. The next morning, you'll find all sorts of stuff on the rock that you can just take a tweazer to remove.

 

[angelsj247]

k i thought bristle worms were good?
because i found one in my tank couple of weeks ago and havent seen him since, but everyone said they are ok and leave it in my tank.. i have a baby clown also and a shrimp and some small snails! well when you do find out what it is please let us know..

 

[OrangeKoi]

da...da....da...da

da...da....da...da

so you haven't seen anything eh?:rollface:

You know, I have a very pretty crab in my tank. Only my son has seen it. Only once. My rocks stay nice and clean. I don't think he travels on the sand much, but he's there all the same. There are about two places he could be. I've heard freshwater dips can be effective at removing critters. But who knows which rock? Do you? Are there ever any pieces left?

I've heard bristle worms are fine when they are small...

 

[sarduci]

Bristle worms can be good, fire worms can be bad. Those are too general of terms to be used when talking about a huge variety of creatures, that to us, all look the same.

Most people who talk about "*worms being bad" are making reference to a few very specific types. If you dig around on here, they are rarely found in a fish tanks.

But, back to the matter at hand.

You could have a mantis shrimp. If you have the shells for the snails, see if they are cracked open. That's a good sign you have a mantic shrimp that is a smasher type. Small fish, slow fish, or injured fish could be brought down by crabs, paracites, some corals or another fish.

If you do have a mantis shrimp, they are extreamly smart and do learn quickly how to foil a trap that is set for them. Check out the SIG forum on RC if you want to know more about them.

 

[XeniaMania]

No matter how smart, mantis shrimps can not escape the freshwater dip...:lol: Uhm...that is unless they jump OUT of the water and decide to latch on to you for revenge...:lol:

 

[XeniaMania]

Oh yeah...in general bristleworms are harmless, but I just don't like having lil pricks in my hand (keep it clean ok?) :lol:

 

[PatMayo]

How many total fish did you have in the tank? What type of test kits are you using to test the ammonia and nitrites?

How much rock do you have in the tank total and what type of filtration?

I'm not sure If I buy into the predator theory. I think it may be something more basic.

Regards,

Pat

 

[Fred_J]

I agree with Pat. If it was a mantis you most likely would have hears some snapping noises. The other possibility is a gorilla crab. They are usually seen sooner or later. Once you answer Pat's questions it should narrow things down.

 

[frank2926]

I agree with Pat. Usually the answer is the simple one ...something out of wack with water ....you let the new rock sit in a bucket for a week, was there a heater in the bucket? I would check your water first thought amonia etc Becasuse normally rock from an lfs is not really cured that much and if you sat it in a bucket with no heater you can be sure there was quit a bit of die off form the cold temp. also what is your specific gravity? inverts snails shrimp etc require at least 1.024 .... Fire fish are notorius jumpers ...have you looked behind your tank?

 

[mdawson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7042855#post7042855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PatMayo
How many total fish did you have in the tank? What type of test kits are you using to test the ammonia and nitrites?

How much rock do you have in the tank total and what type of filtration?

I'm not sure If I buy into the predator theory. I think it may be something more basic.

Regards,

Pat

I had 3 firefish, 2 dwarf angels, 2 clowns, 1 pj wrasse, 1 small blue tang; 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 blood shrimp, 3 hermits, 1 bristle star, some mushroom corals, ~40 lbs of live rock, 55 gallon, I'm using the Saltwater Master Liquid Test Kit, I have a Fluval 304 Cannister filter, a AquaVia Protien Skimmer, I think I mentioned my readings but again they are :

0 Amonia,
0 Nitrite
20 Nitrate
8.4 PH
1.023 - 1.024 Salinity,
Temp 78

When I left the new rock in the bucket for a week no I did not have a heater. Good Point. I only had a water pump to circulate the water, I took water from my 55 gallon to fill the bucket, submersed the rock and left it in the basement for a week with the power head on. I don't find any broken snail shells, and I don't hear any clicking... but would I hear one over a hang on skimmer? It makes more noise than I would like...

This is everything I can think of giving you ... I have attached some photos of my one firefish that has a big welt on the back of his head.

And I did check around the sides of the tank for the first missing fish and I did find that my clown fish jumped :-( But I did not find any signs of my 2 shrimp or my firefish... unless they have disintegrated...

 

[Swanwillow]

I'm aiming for aggression... from the other tankmates.

a clown jumpin is pretty rare, IMO-firefish not so much. and if you have a cat, or dog... there goes the proof. its not nessecarily from one particular fish, but mayhaps they are ALL fighting for territory, when your not around... doing damage like that perfect circle (the tang took a bite... or an angel)

then the cleanup crew eating the leftovers...