At my wits end. Looking for advice before I nuke the tank.

HWDylan

New member
I apologize in advance because this is going to be long but I am at my wits end here and dont know what else to do.

I have a tank that has been up and running for about 4 years now. Things have been ok but I have never really had great success. Sure in the begninning I made my share of mistakes and much of my problems I had early on were easily diagnosed. Here I am 4 years later though and I would like to believe that I know what I am doing to some degree. I am by no means an expert but I understand the ins and outs of reef keeping to some degree.

So here is my problem: 4 years in and I cant seem to get coral to color up at all. Infact quite the opposite, stuff that was once beautiful and vibrant at the LFS turns washed out and pale in my tank very quickly or outright dies. I have had this problem for a long long time and now I feel like I am always chasing the solution. If I just do this or that things will improve. Things never really seem to imporve though. The coral I do have is more or less "surviving" rather than thriving.

Now lets check off the list off the things I know everyone is thinking right now.

Tank: 75 gallon display with a 55 gallon sump.

Lighting: Originally started with a Rapid LED DIY kit I built myself. Ran that for about 3 years and then last year I switched to a ReefBreeders Photon48. I thought the new light would fix my issue because I blamed my problems on my ineptitude in building an LED fixture. "I must have screwed something up building it" or "maybe it just isnt powerful enough". Regardless, I upgraded to a light I KNOW people have success with and saw no change at all.

Water Quality: My system is run by an APEX with BRS dosers. I test weekly for Cal, Alk, Mag, NO3, and PO4 as well as check salinity every once and a while just to be sure.

I keep a very close eye on things and my Alk has never been out of the 8-12dkh range and actually hovers right around 10.5dkh 90% of the time. Cal was real high for a while (~500ppm) earlier this year but other than that its always been pretty solid as long as I have had the tank floating somewhere in the 420ish range. Any changes coming slow. Mag is usually right around 1400. I use the standard 2-part dosing method and it seems to work great and I have never had an issue with over or under dosing really. NO3 has been undetectable pretty much since right after my cycle completed 4 years ago. I never seem to see any change in it. PO4 is similar. I have seen it creep up a bit a few times but nothing crazy. I have off and on run GFO in a reactor when I felt it was needed. As of right now my PO4 is reading 0 via Hannah ULR. Salinity is much the same, I have never seen much change in it as I am very careful when mixing water. 1.024-1.025. Never seen it out of this range. My pH has always been low ~7.8ish but I have read over and over not to chase a pH number so i have always just let it be.

Flow: I have 2 MP40ES that run on a schedule that mixes the modes up throughout the day ranging from 70% to 100% power. Also I have an old Koralia EVO that blows down the back of the tank at 20sec intervals. My return pump is a Jeabo DC8000. Needless to say I have plenty of flow and I have never had an issue with coral getting stripped from being too close to a powerhead.

Live Stock: 2 Clowns, 1 Foxface, 1 Flasher Wrasse, 1 Watchman Goby, 1 Pistol Shrimp, 1 Porcelin Crab, and a ton of snails of various kinds. I had 2 Emerald Crabs but they live in the sump because I was afraid that they might be stressing my corals. Again, looking for anything to blame my issues on at this point.

That narrows my possible problems down a bit. The only thing I can think to do is to break the whole thing down and bleach everything thinking that maybe there is some pest in there or something that is stressing/killing my corals. Something that does concern me is that in the 4 years I have had this tank I have never once seen ANY coraline algae. None. The rocks in the tank are actually still fairly white... even after 4 years. I get algae gorwing on them when I let the PO4 go up a bit but thats about it. There have been times when I purposely over fed just to see some change in the tank hoping that maybe I was just keeping it too clean and that some PO4 would maybe help the coral but again, other than algae blooms, no change to anything. I cant even get Cheato to grow in the sump it does exactly the same, exists but slowly dwindles away.

I used the BRS Dry Pukani rock as my start. I treated it with muriatic acid, then bleach, and then soaked it in RO/DI water with a decholornator for a few weeks (changing the water every few days) just to be sure it was as clean as it could be. The tank cycled fine and even when I bought my first coral (some green zoas) they grew and spread and I thought everything was great. Now my zoas are shrunken to tiny little polyps and are melting away very very slowly (been going on for the last 3 years) and any new zoas I put in never open up right and just melt. I have had the same problems with everything from Softies to SPS. They get pale and colorless and then just ... bearly survive for years until they finally give it up.

There has to be something wrong somewhere. Something that even further drives me crazy is that I work at a zoo and just started a small 15gallon nano for our building and everything in that tank is doing perfectly. So I can keep a reef tank, I am not completely inept there is just something terribly wrong with the home tank.

I guess I am just looking for advice on what to do next. I was thinking about stripping everything. Buying all new sand and bleaching the tank and rock and starting over. Maybe even buy all new rock but... damn... thats expensive. I will do what I need to though to get things right.
 
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Hmm that is very interesting. So possibly a nutrient issue? My lights are far from bright. I have them at bearly 40% because I thought maybe I was bleaching everything so I dropped my lighting down to around 15% and have been VERY VERY slowly bumping it back up again.

I will try feeding more then and refraining from using GFO.

Very interesting post though, thank you.
 
Add some T5's to the mix, even just a 2 bulb unit. Deploy an ATS. This is what helped me when i was in your shoes. I ended up having a major tank crash, lost a lot of corals, and felt like punting. And this was on BOTH of my tanks. On my 90g, I am trying strictly led again, but with a 20k look. I do see some color changes, but nothing bad.
 
Your flow seems incredibly high for a 75. I run 2 MP40s on my 258 and they are set at reef crest at 40%. If I go much higher I kick up sand on the opposite side of the 6' tank (both MP40s are on one side of the peninsula tank.)
 
Your flow seems incredibly high for a 75. I run 2 MP40s on my 258 and they are set at reef crest at 40%. If I go much higher I kick up sand on the opposite side of the 6' tank (both MP40s are on one side of the peninsula tank.)

I have always been told that you cant really have too much flow in a tank so long as it is not directed right at corals. The ocean is pretty rough. My fish seems to be ok with it so I always figured it was fine. When I set up the MP40s I read on this forum that a lot of people have 2 on a 75gallon and keep that at around 80-100% reef crest since reef crest spends a significant portion of its time fairly low.
 
You could be blasting them with to much light as well.
Led is deceiving in that way. To your eye its seems dimmer then metal halide but that's not always the case.
Are you using the legs or hanging your unit ?
 
You could be blasting them with to much light as well.
Led is deceiving in that way. To your eye its seems dimmer then metal halide but that's not always the case.
Are you using the legs or hanging your unit ?

I am hanging the unit. It is about 9ish inches off the surface of the water.

I thought this same thing as well and dropped the lights to 15% each channel and have been very very slowly (over the last 4 months) been bumping the % up. I am only at 20% white and 40% blue right now and still I have seen no change. I actually left the light at 15% for about 2 months just to make sure they had ample time to heal (assuming I burned them)
 
I bet if you put a t5 fixture on your tank things would color right up. Get a 6 bulb sunpower and watch your coral get nice and colorful. I think your problem is your lighting. Jmo
 
The lack of coralline doesn't really mean anything. I didn't have any grow in my 75g for 4 years. I attributed that to all my asterina stars. But it could have been anything. Still had great coral growth.
 
The coral growth is the thing that is sticking out in my mind though. I have almost no growth.

I lowered the amount of Alk I am dosing a bit and will try and bring it slowly down to around 7-8dkh as well as feeding more heavily and I will see if that doesnt help some.

I really appreciate all the feedback.
 
Don't just feed the tank feed your corals as well. Try Rod's food or Reef frenzy and feed them twice a week. Keep your same routine do nothing different just feed a little more see if it helps.

I feed my corals twice a week a mixture of Rod's food and Coral frenzy with a few drops of Selcon mixed in.

Good luck.
 
i had the same problem once, tank was going good, sps,lps , clams looked great and growing, then slowly everything went south,finally after six months and losing just about all of my corals and a few fish, i found out what it was. a vender had supplied me with new seals for my pumps, they were not the made of the right material,basically it came down to heavy metal poisoning , the same seals were also being used in my mix tank. changed seal venders, did a alot of water changes, ect. waited about 6 month, put a few frags in , all still growing. just added more a bout a week ago.
 
I'm no expert but the lack of No3 in your system will cause pale corals so will copper(Not saying you have a copper problem). Try to get your No3 up to 1-5ppm by feeding more. Ramp up the amount you feed over a few weeks, testing for No3 and Po4 daily. You may need to add some type of Po4 remover if the po4 goes up too much. Alge may grow during this time keep the Po4 in check and it should reside. Once you get your No3 @ 1-5ppm keep it there by adjusting the amount you feed and verify your results through testing.
 
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what salt mix are you using?

i used SeaChem Reef Salt for quite some time, then when i moved in to the new place i switched to Instant Ocean Reef Crystals because i was having trouble finding the amount of the SeaChem salt i needed at the time.

stuck with IO Reef Crystals for a few months because my LFS wasn't getting in the SeaChem type and a good bit of my SPS went bone white. it was still growing, but the flesh (not polyps) were stark white. switched back to SeaChem Reef Salt recently, and there's been a remarkable increase in coloration for all but one of the colonies that had gone white.
 
Don't just feed the tank feed your corals as well.
I target feed corals mysis almost daily when I feed the fish. I alternate feeding mysis and a few differnt brands of pellet food just to keep up the variety. I also use Red Sea Reef Energy 1&2 for the corals and a few times a week I broadcast feed a mix of Reef Chili and Cyclopeze for the corals as well.

I will try feeding more for sure. Cant hurt. I'll keep an eye on my NO3 and PO4 and use GFO if the PO4 gets too high. 0.02ppm is the acceptable PO4 level for a reef right? I keep reading over and over that 0 PO4 is what you should shoot for in a reef but I do understand that coral uses some level of PO4.

what salt mix are you using?
The salt mix I have always used has been Instant Ocean. Not Reef Crystals because I dose and dont need the higher lvls or ALk or Cal.

check copper
As far as I know I have never had any copper anywhere near my tank nor have I ever had issues keeping other inverts alive such as crabs or snails, but I'll grab a Poly filter today. I have never used one before. I just put it in the sump in a place where water passes through it and wait for it to change color?
 
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Changing from instant ocean to a better salt made a world of difference for me in color.

I can't say for sure why, but my assumption is that there is/are trace elements missing from their brand that my corals liked.
 
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