Babies

tastydog

New member
My mantis has a sack of eggs. I have two of them in a 5.5 nano. How would I raise the babies to keep the alive? Do I need another tank? This is a species only tank with the 2 mantis shrimp and a few hermits for them to eat over time. I do feed the tank a little and it has a few coral. I have about 10lbs of live rock in the tank and a HOB filter and a in tank powerhead.

I would like to try raising the babies until they are big enough to give away locally or sell in a bunch to someone online.

Brandon
 
I have yet to hear of anyone successfully raising mantis fry, but one thing I would think would be a necessity is to grow out some rotifers. I know fishchannel.com had an article on it, I used to have it bookmarked before I had to do a comp reformat a while back. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post it up on here. Do you have any copepods or anything like that in your tank as well? Most of the fry might end up as hermit food, though :(
 
i remember reading somewhere where somebody found a mantis at the LFS they worked at that was holding eggs so they brought it home and started to raise the fry but they turned cannabalistic and killed eachother so i think the only way would be to separate them as much as possible or in a really large tank but either way is really tough with the large tank being harder because it would be a pain to feed them.
 
Typically, they never get to the stage where they can be cannibalistic since they usually starve three days after becoming free swimming. I know of only four people who have successfully reared gonodactylids and no one has had any luck with Odontodactylus or any other group.

Roy
 
This is my plan so far:

  1. Get 5 containers that are 1-2 gallons each.
  2. Use an air pump and 5 stones, one in each container
  3. Put a small piece of mature live rock and 1" of fresh clean crushed coral in each container
  4. Assuming I can get the eggs from the shrimp and break them up easily, I will put portion of the eggs in each container
  5. I currently have a mix of live rotifers and a mix of 6 strains of phytoplankton in the fridge. I would not be adverse to getting more, or whatever I need to feed them.
  6. Feed as needed switching to meaty foods as soon as possible
  7. Change water as needed (partial once or twice a week)

Questions:
1) If they are canniblaistic, then wouldn't they feed themselves for a while?
2) How long before they are 1/4-1/2" long?
3) What is the best food to feed them at each stage? 1 week - 8 weeks?
4) What am I missing?

Brandon
 
I'm not sure if you have the time/money/equipment to do this, but if you could drill over flows into each one of the containers and connected them all with your main system or just a sump that'll help a lot with quality of everything, and may make things easier. Good luck!
 
I assume you have N. wennerae. They have been reared successfully using the following method. First, however, some basic biology. The eggs take three weeks to develop and hatch. They need their mother's care, so do not remove them from her cavity. After hatching the larvae will remain with the mother in her cavity for about 6 days. During this time they will molt twice and live off their yolk. During this period they are thigmotaxic and negatively phototaxic remaining in a clump in the cavity. The third molt they become positively phototaxic and at dawn swim out of the cavity up into the water column. They are now planktonic and will not settle to the bottom for a month. They have also exhausted their yolk and need to start eating. During the planktonic phase, they will molt three or four more times and grow to about 7 mm. At this time, they molt to a postlarval stage and settle.

The technique that has worked rearing them is as follows.

1. Collect larvae the morning they become free-swimming. This is easy using a flashlight to attract them to the top or side of the aquarium. A turkey baster works well to suck them up and transfer them to containers.

2. Place one larva each into a 5-10 oz plastic cup filled with clean seawater. Start feeding with copepods, rotifers, and newly hatched brine shrimp that have been treated with supplement such as Selcon. As the larvae get larger, you can switch to larger food using bigger brine. Gut loading with Cyclopsese (never can spell it) helps.

3. This is the hard part. Each morning add the live food - about 20-50 organisms per cup. After a few hours, remove the food and change the water. I find the easiest way to do this is to suck up the larva with the baster, rinse out the cup and replace the water, then return the larva. Ideally they should have 24 hour access to food, but that is too much work for me. I feed once a day.

4. Don't try to rear multiple larvae per cup. They are cannibalistic.

5. When the larvae are about 5-6 mm long, add a thin cover of gravel to the bottom of the cup. This promotes molting to a postlarval stage and settlement.

6. Once they settle, feed Cyclopsese, amphipods, brine shrimp (small adults), etc.

Be prepared for a lot of work and frustration. The last time I did this, I started with 100 cups and successfully reared only a handful of animals.

Roy
 
Gonodactylus: First of all THANK YOU! Great information and answers almost everything. I really appreciate your time.

4. Don't try to rear multiple larvae per cup. They are cannibalistic.

Now, wouldn't it be better to do 20-30 larvae in a larger container? That way natural selection can take place? Meaning the only one or two that survive would be the biggest baddest strongest ones? Also, wouldn't it make it easier because you don't have to worry about not feeding enough at first? I mean, if they are cannibalistic, let them be. Survival of the fittest. I would think the long term survival rate would be better.

--

Everything else sounds good. Also, why don't you add live rock? And why do you wait to add the substrate?

I guess raising fry in captivity isn't anything like keeping a tank. Meaning, that you don't "go natural". I was thinking I would try to duplicate their natural environment to give the best chance.

I am going to try this, I am almost positive. I will take pictures for sure. Thanks again for your advice. I will take it, and also try my own variation so that two methods are used. I guess there will be a better chance of success. I wonder what I will do with them if I am successful though heh.


Brandon
 
My mantis had an egg sack once. Unfortunately, one day the male decided to kill the female.

I'm not sure about N. Wennerae species, but I would suggest removing the male in case it ever changes its mind about coexisting. Just to be on the safe side.
 
The larvae don't just eat others, they can strike and injure others on contact. Almost any injury is likely to become infected and be lethal. Housing them individually eliminates the chance of injury as well as cannibalism.

Live rock in the cup contribute nothing buy waste - and makes it hard to clean out the dead food and waste.

Same is true of the gravel that promotes settlement. If it is in the cup before they are ready to settle, it just makes it harder to clean the cup.

Roy
 
It's not like the LFS will be able to raise it. They've other responsibilities to tend to, so I don't think the eggs will get much personal attention if left there. Besides, even if we fail, we'll all at least learn some things.

Best of luck raising them, tastydog . Step us through what you've done and post pictures along the way!
 
Thanks for the great info Roy. I see why you made the choices you made.

I am going to figure out what I need to do 20-30 single cups and 5-10 larger cups with 15-30 larvae. I am going to work out the logistics and cost of this setup, it would appear I have a little time. I very much want to move forward and absolutely if I do, I will update this thread and my website with detailed information.

I do not know what to do with them if I have any success, if anyone has ideas on that, let me know.

Thanks again all for the support and responses.

Brandon
 
What a great thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. I'm really looking forward to hearing about/seeing your mantis shrimp rearing adventure tastydog.
 
Well, the vacation my have ruined everything. I couldn't get back to the tank until now. I found the female and the egg sack is gone. It has been 21 days since I first spotted the sack.

1. Collect larvae the morning they become free-swimming. This is easy using a flashlight to attract them to the top or side of the aquarium. A turkey baster works well to suck them up and transfer them to containers.

Can you give me any more pointers on this? I am going to try this tomorrow morning and Sunday morning.

Brandon
 
Very interesting. I hope this works out! I did have one question though, how does one regulate the temperature in these little cups? It seems like you would need to maintain a relatively stable temperature in the room that you would house them in to avoid temp swings?

Best of luck tastydog
 
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