Best Top Off pumps - Tunze Osmolator??

[Jgoal55]

I am going to be keeping my top-off water outdoors in my balcony area which is right behind my tank. Im holding the water in a 50 gallon container which worries me a little only because if something should fail with the ATO, neither my sump, nor my livestock, can withstand an extra 50 gallons of FW (that said, I don't plan to keep the container entirely full but since its what I have Im going to use it and keep probably around 25 gallons which is how much extra the sump can handle w/out overflowing).

Anyway, I currently use an autotopoff.com float switch which has 3 fail safes. It has never failed me and has always worked exactly like its supposed to. The only problem is that it doesn't prevent the top off pump from running dry. Though from what I understand there is a way of rigging it so that it does that. Anyway, Im not a big DIYer so I was looking at the Tunze Osmoloator which has great reviews but seems just terribly expensive for an ATO. Also, the few bad reviews I've read of it are that it has failed and overfilled peoples sumps (not good).

Do any of you have experience with it and is it truly worth the cash? It's between that and a Vortech Battery Back up right now.

The other issue is that since I am keeping the container outside behind the tank wall, I have to drill through my wall and run either the tubing through so that it reaches the top off pump inside the house or run the outlet cable from the float switches outside if I keep the ATO pump outside. The autotopoff.com electrical cable is really thick and could handle being in the wall, however the Tunze cable seems very thin.

If I don't use the Tunze, which ATO pump do you guys recommend to serve my purpose? I used to use a Toms aqualifter but I dont feel comfortable running airline tubing through my wall.

 

[Rogger Castells]

i love the osmoloator, have use it for years, it has a low and a high switch to prevent accidental filling

 

[Jgoal55]

thanks rogger.....i remembered after i posted that you had one. hows the cable quality.....like i said, either i keep the ATO pump outside and I run the electrical through the wall to the pump, or I keep the pump inside and run the tubing from the outside in.

 

[Rogger Castells]

Like every other tunze equipment very good.

 

[lilfishbigreef]

contact autotopoff.com i think there is a way to add the run dry. i dont remember exactly but maybe they can help you

 

[saintperez]

I don't know man but I've been running my ATO with an AUtolifter for about almost a year now with no incidents. Best part about it, $15-20. It can sit and run dry for days sucking air. Mine has with no issues.

 

[Jgoal55]

I don't know man but I've been running my ATO with an AUtolifter for about almost a year now with no incidents. Best part about it, $15-20. It can sit and run dry for days sucking air. Mine has with no issues.

Yeah thats what I have used as well for a long time......they really work well. problem like i said is running airline tubing through the wall as my main top off line......just worries me.

 

[Jgoal55]

contact autotopoff.com i think there is a way to add the run dry. i dont remember exactly but maybe they can help you

thanks....ill call them tomorrow.

 

[Jgoal55]

alright, Im going to try to clear this up a bit.....here is the overall plan that I have in my head:

Never mind the size of the circle (hole). I just made it huge for demo purposes. Distance from the containers outside to the sump is like 4-6ft (max).

What I need recommendations on are (mainly so I know what size to drill the hole and what tubing to run):
1) What pump and size tubing to use for the ATO in line?
2) What pump and size tubing to use for the WC Drain out line (I would like this pump to turn on at the flick of a switch on the DJ strip)?
3) What pump and size tubing to use for the WC (SW) In line (this pump I plan on connecting to the ATO switch so that it refills to the exact amount every time)?

Also, how should I set this up? For example, should the ATO pump be outside in the container (unless its a Toms of course) at which point the electrical cable (from the ATO switch) runs through the wall or should I keep it inside at which point only the tubing runs through the wall.

Same with the WC (SW) pump? Inside or out? If I plan on connecting this pump to the ATO switch and if I place the ATO switch inside the the electrical cable from this pump would be running through the wall......

wow.....im hurting my head and confusing myself.....lol..please help.....

 

[saintperez]

Being that your going to have a distance of 4-6 feet I would recommend a slightly stronger pump such as a Maxi-Jet 600 or something of that nature sitting at the bottom of your reservoir, only problem with that is if you let it run dry. Either case I would have to say you're going to have to run the outlet from the float switches to the outside. You can accomplish this several ways from running the actual outlet through the wall, cheapest to putting two UL electrical outlets, one on the inside and one on the outside. You will hate yourself for going this route when you actually have to start cutting the a rectangle into the brick.

 

[Jgoal55]

cool, thanks. Im think thats the route im going to take...just run the electrical cable for the ATO switch outside and keep two pumps out there.....one for the ATO and one for replacing the SW.

Do you know what size tubing works with the Maxi-Jets.....i was actually thinking of using something even stronger???

 

[saintperez]

I know the 1200 use 3/8

 

[Rogger Castells]

I will use eheim pumps for both apps. if you want to be able to have a safe mind, they have really small hobby pumps, MJ pumps are not design to be turning on and off and they will break after a short time.
The Ato tubiing could be 1/4" and if you are going to run it with a pump I will make sure that the container that you store the r/o water behind the tank is below the sump level otherwise it will continue to dump water after you shut the pump off, also ensure that the tubing never gets immerse in water otherwise it will drain your sump into the ato reservoir.
The WC drain needs to be as big as you can afford, no less than 1". the reason for this is that it must be able to keep up with the pump that is sending the new water in the tank, if not it will get water locked and you will get a flood. I recommend 1-1/4" to 1-1/2"

 

[Jgoal55]

I will use eheim pumps for both apps. if you want to be able to have a safe mind, they have really small hobby pumps, MJ pumps are not design to be turning on and off and they will break after a short time.
The Ato tubiing could be 1/4" and if you are going to run it with a pump I will make sure that the container that you store the r/o water behind the tank is below the sump level otherwise it will continue to dump water after you shut the pump off

the containers are on the same floor as the sump but the sump is inside the stand and therefore about 6-7inches higher. Also, the floor kind of slanted down a bit from where the sump is but prob not enough to make a difference. I think I could always put the end of the ATO Input line above the container level and I should be good.

If I can use 1/4" with the Eheims thats what Ill use for the ATO....

The WC drain needs to be as big as you can afford, no less than 1". the reason for this is that it must be able to keep up with the pump that is sending the new water in the tank, if not it will get water locked and you will get a flood. I recommend 1-1/4" to 1-1/2"

Although it wouldnt be perfectly automated, Ill probably run these two pumps at different times. Ill drain first, then replace the water so one pump keeping up with the other wont be a big deal. That way I can have a smaller hole. If you think 3/4" would work for that drain line and the inline ill just use that.

 

[Rogger Castells]

Yes, 3/4" will work if you use a pump to force the extra water out, but I can tell you from experience that it will be a PIA to calculate exactly how much water to drain vs how much water you have left, I would just use a gravity drain that is always at you max sump level so water ever water you inject in the tank will evacuate the same amount in the sump.

 

[roblack]

I just ordered this thing to get me through the Holidays. Will let everyone know how it does.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Gap_Products_Level_Loc_Automatic_Top_Off_(ATO)_Unit_Electric_Powered_Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off-Gap_Products-GA1111-FIDPET-vi.html

 

[Jgoal55]

Yes, 3/4" will work if you use a pump to force the extra water out, but I can tell you from experience that it will be a PIA to calculate exactly how much water to drain vs how much water you have left, I would just use a gravity drain that is always at you max sump level so water ever water you inject in the tank will evacuate the same amount in the sump.

Rogger, I know what you mean.....quite a few times in my reef keeping years I have run out of new water while doing a WC and suddenly have had to make new salt water on the spot to get the sump back to normal operating level.....sucks when that happens.

Can you elaborate a bit on this gravity system, im not sure i get it the way your describing it.

thx.

 

[Rogger Castells]

Yes, simple way to explain you have a drain that is exactly at your sumps last chamber water level (the one that goes up and down with evaporation) this drain is usually close until you do a water change, the new water is pump into the display as far away from the overflow as possible, the new water will displace the old and the surplus water will start rising at your sump last chamber. you will need to open this drain and let that surplus water simply flow out. When your new water finish the sump level will settle as well.
In other words for each gallon of water that you pour in your main display one gallon of old water will exit at your sump. the key is to bring your new water as fast and far away from the overflow as possible to prevent dumping any new water.
I do 100 gal water change in 7 minutes and never wet my hands or have to suck any water out, as a result I actually do the water change on time

 

[bolo7735]

Here is a few picture of my water change drain. I have this drain in my center chamber of my sump because the left and right chamber drains to the center.
My drain diameter is 2" and will have a union ball valve to allow me to attach a drain hose to dump the water outside my front door. Also, the drain plumbing inside my sump are not glue in to allow me to adjust to the water level or for maintenance.

My return plumbing has been changed since I took this picture. I will be running two Eheim 1262.

 

[Jgoal55]

ok i got it.....thanks for the pics that definitely helped. So basically, your always going to be changing exactly the amount of water that you have in your container.......never less, never more. thats pretty sweet

I like the idea but the hole I'd have to put in the wall for this to work well is too big. Unless I could go with a 3/4" line I think Ill stick to the ld fashion way and just make sure that i always have enough water (i know, famous last words)

so the drain goes slightly above water level in your sumps return chamber or just at water level. Also, I imagine you still turn the return pump off while you do this???