Bryopsis, Kent Tech M and carbon?

I actually kept using my filter sock, Chemipure Elite, and Purigen while dosing Tech M. I still killed off my bryopsis. I have since switched the magnesium in my auto doser to Tech M as it's not overly expensive to buy the big jugs and does with a few ml's a day. I don't know if the bryopsis would make a comeback if I stopped, but I don't have any at this point to speak of.
 
albeit I did overfeed during a month or two due to a leopard wrasse that was recoverying (fully too), my phates (DD Merck, HACH) are below 0.028 and trates are below 0.5 (tropic Marin, Elos).

I do believe It's been noted in many reefers tanks that some macro continue to grow in ULNS, anecdotally, of course.

the growth of algae, takes up N and P,. so the values tested arent real.

if algae present

Bryopsis is not an algae that would grow in ULNS, like bubble algae, or leafy types.

just saying :)
 
What's your theory on how the ocean grows it

Are you thinking our test kits will show dirty or clean water if taken from let's say the east end of grand Cayman for example. While diving there I saw mixed algal communities, green and hairy etc, that's when I thought water params may not be indicative of very much regarding control of primary producers viva peroxide lol.
 
What's your theory on how the ocean grows it

Are you thinking our test kits will show dirty or clean water if taken from let's say the east end of grand Cayman for example. While diving there I saw mixed algal communities, green and hairy etc, that's when I thought water params may not be indicative of very much regarding control of primary producers viva peroxide lol.

I do not think Oceans are ULNS. no comment about proxide.
 
ok here is a question I have, specially for Dave as you are more updated on this.

the tanks that have bryopsis, and it is solved using tech M, do they start off with normal range MG concentration ? or lower than normal ?
could it be that DROP in MG is causing its growth ?

I had it in one of my tanks I think about 6 months ago, for a short period, tested everything,mg was at 1050, raised it to 1300 and bryopsis was gone the day after [it started dying and my tangs started eating it] just wondering if this is the case with others or not. I didnt put this case as "treated by tech M" as I think low MG was causing it.

I can only speak for my system at the time I treated with Tech M. My magensium level was usually in the 1250-1350 range, maintained by Randy's 2 part, when I introduced bryopsis in my system via a chalice coral. I asked about the algae, and the LFS owner told me it was no big deal.:mad::mad: I did not know what bryopsis was then, but quickly learned about it after it started to spread. Did a lot of research and started seeing Tech M pop up as a way to get rid of it.

So my mag levels were OK when I got Bryopsis, and I tested then with a Salifert Mag test kit.

On a side note, I saw a couple trends regarding succcess and failure reports with Tech M: some folks that reported no succcess with Tech M used mag chloride or mag sulfate or a combination to raise mag levels initially, then used Tech M the last part of the way. Also, some folks tried to deal with the bryopsis by raising Mag levels using only mag sulfate and/or mag chloride without using Tech M at all. Those reporting success used Tech M as the sole source for increasing their mag levels. These trends told me that there was something in the Tech M that was killing the bryopsis other than the magnesium, because if it was the magnesium doing it we would not need Tech M, as the only mag source in it is mag sulfate (I don't think it has mag chloride in it). Also, the reports of success with Tech M also showed folks used the 1600-1800 range and kept it there for a period of time, with those reporting bryopsis returning not using a long exposure time. This told me that a certain length of exposure was also needed for successful killing of the bryopsis, aside from whateve concentration level of the effective trace was needed. So as this all was anecdotal, I used 1800 as my target and a two week exposure time at that level, which were the upper limits of what folks that were successful were using, just to be sure. I felt comfortable doing this, as higher than normal magnesium levels for a short duration didn't appear to be a threat to corals or fish.

But aside from any trace variations from Tech M batch to batch, adequate length of exposure to the trace appeared to be as important as any other factor, which brought about my first post in this thread. I believe you need an adequate concentration of the trace, but you also need a certain minimum exposure period of the bryopsis to that trace in Tech M to kill, rather than just reduce the amount of bryopsis in the system, then have it return later. Similar to how you need a certain exposure time with Interceptor to kill Redbugs in a system, which seems to be 8 hours for a single Interceptor treatment.

So it is not just raise your magnesium levels using Tech M by 30% over what it is normally. There seems to be a minimum exposure time required as well. Again, based on ancdotal observations of Tech M users. All we have at this point, but it seems to be true based on my use of it and others successful or unsuccessful use of it.

There is also the chance that one could buy Tech M that has a low amount of the effective trace as well, or maybe one species of bryopsis is more resistant than another. I have read posts saying they did all the things I mentioned when I was successful with it, and they still could not get rid of it. Ralph's experience illustrates that quite well.

But taken as a whole, there are far more reports of successful use of Tech M than unsuccesssful use of Tech M. I was lucky in that I found Tech M for $17.99 a gallon when I treated, so it didn't break the bank to try it. I think I used about 3 gallons to treat my then 450 net gallon system.
 
the growth of algae, takes up N and P,. so the values tested arent real.

if algae present

Bryopsis is not an algae that would grow in ULNS, like bubble algae, or leafy types.

just saying :)

So I guess you are using very anecdotal & inconsistent evidence as many have found this to be true.........and a small patch of Bryopsis isn't going to change any readings in your tank water concerning both nitrates and phosphates...
 
I in fact believe a large patch won't either. The article we need most is for someone to determine the nitrogen and phosphorous ratio in a 'large' patch of x green invader, and to determine how much command the patch actually has. I bet right now its not much. We blame algae for sucking up nitrates and phosphates, I bet it doesn't. Probably 5% of what we think

If you really track algae threads, there is a critical mass reached, it holds for a while and does not increase biomass enough to justify all the n and p sucking attributed, watch and see.
 
I in fact believe a large patch won't either. The article we need most is for someone to determine the nitrogen and phosphorous ratio in a 'large' patch of x green invader, and to determine how much command the patch actually has. I bet right now its not much. We blame algae for sucking up nitrates and phosphates, I bet it doesn't. Probably 5% of what we think

If you really track algae threads, there is a critical mass reached, it holds for a while and does not increase biomass enough to justify all the n and p sucking attributed, watch and see.

hmm, how does that make sense ?

are you trying to say algae does not take up N and P ? if so, why do we run ALGAE FUGE ?

experiment for yourself, take a bit of any algae, dry it, grind it in RO/DI water, and leave over night, test the water for N and P the day after :)

or send the dry algae for testing to any lab. if it came back to contain no N or P, I will pay for the testing :)
 
So I guess you are using very anecdotal & inconsistent evidence as many have found this to be true.........and a small patch of Bryopsis isn't going to change any readings in your tank water concerning both nitrates and phosphates...

interesting tone, does not sound like a discussion to me anymore ...

if you think algae doesnt take up nutritions, then I am out of words.

if you havent read the studies of contents of algae, then again, I am out of words, nothing to discuss here in that case.
 
So how much phosphate does a medium rock covered in bryopsis command, that has looked the same for months, isn't adding discernible mass etc. you are thinking it removes the same amount continually?

It used phosphate initially, then dropped substantially to maintain mass vs initial growth. Telling everyone with low nutrients that some algae is sucking it out isn't always right, is there a link or article saying otherwise?
 
A simple starter experiment maybe:

3 or 4 cups with x amount phosphate input using an accurate tester that shows same/close amounts before algae rock addition. Put algae rock in one, light it for a few days, take reading...at least its a start. Anything is better than all this guessing we're doing...

Also, said chemist can take a dry weight sample of a bunch of x invader and read phosphate/let's see how much phosphate a little lettuce has i'm curious. Compared to half the feed we input daily, not much is the bet.
 
So how much phosphate does a medium rock covered in bryopsis command, that has looked the same for months, isn't adding discernible mass etc. you are thinking it removes the same amount continually?

It used phosphate initially, then dropped substantially to maintain mass vs initial growth. Telling everyone with low nutrients that some algae is sucking it out isn't always right, is there a link or article saying otherwise?

I dont even understand what you are trying to say, sorry. please try to make your post more clear, or use less sarcasm ... if interested in a duscussion that is. ....

"Telling everyone with low nutrients that some algae is sucking it out isn't always right, is there a link or article saying otherwise?"
english is not my first language, so it would be better to use more clear sentences on international forums.
BUT, I said ULNS = nutritions so low, algae wont grow

so if u have algae growing, you are not having a ULNS system.

if you test po4 at 0.028 and have algae growing, your readin is NOT correct...

really dont see why u are questioning algae uptake of nutritions.
 
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A simple starter experiment maybe:

3 or 4 cups with x amount phosphate input using an accurate tester that shows same/close amounts before algae rock addition. Put algae rock in one, light it for a few days, take reading...at least its a start. Anything is better than all this guessing we're doing....

this would show nothing. couple cups of water with some po4, is not same as our reef tank, its not the same limitations and the same nutritions are not available. algae can not use po4 alone, it also needs NO3, vitamine B, pottasium and iron and ... :)

Also, said chemist can take a dry weight sample of a bunch of x invader and read phosphate/let's see how much phosphate a little lettuce has i'm curious. Compared to half the feed we input daily, not much is the bet.

X amount of po4 in your food.
algae takes up Y amount of po4 to grow Z cm.

now lets say for each cm of algae growth, Y amount of po4 have been removed. if X is 10 times larger than Y, then algae would grow 10 fold, or 10 cm, and po4 reading will stay the same. given no other limitation [no3, Vit B and ... ]

sorry but can you please post again what your point was ?

are you still saying algae does not take up nutritions ? or are you trying to say something else ?
 
Wasn't being sarcastic...mixed saltwater has those nutrients you mentioned, it was just a simple idea to see if any of the extra phosphate was fixed to a degree that can be measured. There are lots of threads I posted that I don't think some algae in a tank changes nutrient levels its not directed solely at you.
 
I'm saying some algae on a rock doesn't change levels you can detect, it does not suck up nutrients to maintain mass as much as it does to grow in the initial phase. in botany and physiology studies its called positive/neg/neutral nitrogen balance, the rates aren't the same throughout the lifespan of the organism in question.


I think a common occurrence on Web boards is to say that algae always commands the same amount of nutrient when I think it levels off and isn't the reason we detect low nutrients. Tanks already having low nutrient get algae, people refuse to see that occasionally.
 
I'm saying some algae on a rock doesn't change levels you can detect, it does not suck up nutrients to maintain mass as much as it does to grow in the initial phase. in botany and physiology studies its called positive/neg/neutral nitrogen balance, the rates aren't the same throughout the lifespan of the organism in question.


I think a common occurrence on Web boards is to say that algae always commands the same amount of nutrient when I think it levels off and isn't the reason we detect low nutrients. Tanks already having low nutrient get algae, people refuse to see that occasionally.

Certainly, if the algae is growing it is taking up N and P. If it is not growing for some reason, then it won't be taking up much N and P, and I don't think most reefers will dispute that. :)

However, I've not seen any evidence that microalgae has life cycle stages that aren't always "trying" to grow if nutrients are available. :)
 
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