Bulk Reef Supply additives, do not seem to be correct

R

RedEDGE2k1

Member
I have been having trouble getting my alk/calc/mag levels up to par using Bulk Reef Supply additives. I dose my 90g mixed reef with a Litermeter III, and currently it is set to dose 410mL per day Alk/Calc and even that is not enough to keep my levels up (I have been testing/adjusting daily for weeks now, still not to the "sweet spot" yet with the dosing amounts).

I got frustrated today, because I tested/dosed last night and tested again this morning, and my levels were almost identical, and calcium actually dropped. So, I ran an experiment this afternoon to see how accurate the Bulk Reef Supply additives and online calculator really are.

I mixed 5 gallons of RODI water and Instant Ocean salt, confirmed SG of 1.025 using a refractometer, and used a heater in the bucket to bring the saltwater up to 80°. I then used a Lamotte test kit for alkalinity, and a Seachem kit for each calcium and magnesium.

Instant Ocean, 5 gallon mix, SG=1.025, Temp=80°

Alkalinity - 168ppm (~9.5 dkH)
Calcium - 275ppm
Magnesium - 810 ppm

So, using the Bulk Reef Supply online calculator, I added the following doses of additives to theoretically bring the levels up to 180ppm Alkalinity, 432ppm Calcium, and 1285ppm Magnesium.

Dose
Alkalinity (Bulk Reef Supply, 2 cups to 1 gallon) - 2.4 mL
Calcium (Bulk Reef Supply, 2 cups to 1 gallon)- 2.7 oz
Magnesium (Bulk Reef Suppply, 3+5 cups to 1 gallon) - 6.4 oz

Of course, I added the doses slowly, and allowed the bucket to mix for about a half hour before testing again.

After allowing time to mix, I tested again. My results on the 2nd test:

2nd Test Results
Alkalinity - 160ppm - Should have raised to 180ppm
Calcium - 400ppm - Should have raised to 432ppm
Magnesium - 1125ppm - Should have raised to 1285ppm

Conclusion

There are a couple of variables here that could be throwing me off:

a) My test kits are inaccurate. This is likely, as my Lamotte alkalinity test is the titration "color change" type. You're supposed to note when the color changes from green to purple. When it turns red, you are PAST the endpoint. That is fine, but the green-to-purple change occurs at 160ppm and the purple-to-red change occurs at 184ppm. How am I supposed to know if my alkalinity is 160 or 180??

b) The additives from Bulk Reef Supply are weaker than they claim them to be.

c) The online calculator is not correct. I doubt this is the culprit, because multiple calculators from other sites give the same results.


What do you guys think?
 
My 30 gallon is pretty jam packed with SPS and 30-40ml Ca and Alk from BRS keep me stable.

40x3 = 120 ml.

410 seems way off something is wrong.
 
That could be the problem though. There have been many instances when their references are off, so that would mean the entire kit is off. Test kits would also be my first assumption. Mag levels can take a TON of supplementing to get them to raise. I have had to use an entire 2 quart container of Seachem Reef Mag over the course of a few days to raise from 1080 to 1400. I keep my Mag at 1450 -1550 at all times. It got to be such a pain to maintain that I ended up purchasing a dosing pump and have it set at 5ml an hour or approx 128ml a day of Randy's 5 MgCl2 to 3 MgSO4. I mix up a gallon and just let it drip. A gallon will last me about 2 weeks and I am able to maintain a 1500ppm level. Granted I had to add and add to get it to the level in the first place, but this amount maintains that level now. Also as Bertoni eluded to, make sure your refractometer is calibrated with a true 53ms calibration solution. I used to use RODI for mine based on my LFS recommendation, however, a while back there was a big discussion on this so I spent the 5.99 and bought a bottle of the Pinpoint solution and to my surprise, my refractometer was 3 points off, so while I thought I was maintaining a 1.026 SG I actually had a 1.023SG. It made a big difference in my parameters when I was able to keep it at a true 1.026. Just some ideas for you to look at. I would recommend trying Salifert or ELOS test kits.
 
Re: Bulk Reef Supply additives, do not seem to be correct

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14125103#post14125103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RedEDGE2k1
Conclusion

There are a couple of variables here that could be throwing me off:

a) My test kits are inaccurate. This is likely, as my Lamotte alkalinity test is the titration "color change" type. You're supposed to note when the color changes from green to purple. When it turns red, you are PAST the endpoint. That is fine, but the green-to-purple change occurs at 160ppm and the purple-to-red change occurs at 184ppm. How am I supposed to know if my alkalinity is 160 or 180??

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Then:

The test kits are not "off." All come with reference samples, and all test kits were confirmed accurate (by me).

IMO There seems to be some confusion in whether or not you want opinions or help.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14128254#post14128254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RedEDGE2k1
The test kits are not "off." All come with reference samples, and all test kits were confirmed accurate (by me).
Click to expand...
With all due respect, if you are getting the following results:

------------------------------------------------------------------
Instant Ocean, 5 gallon mix, SG=1.025, Temp=80°

Alkalinity - 168ppm (~9.5 dkH)
Calcium - 275ppm
Magnesium - 810 ppm
------------------------------------------------------------------

then there are only two possibilities I can think of - you have a VERY bad batch of salt or you have a test kit/refractometer problem.

Your test results show an insufficiency in all parameters. Doesn't that lead to the conclusion that there is a basic error occurring in your testing? Bulk Reef Supply sells chemicals used by many hundreds (if not thousands) of successful reefers. BFS is right at the top of the list when it comes to quality and customer service. I would suggest that we RC members should probably put every effort into determining the actual cause of a problem before placing blame on of of the best vendors we have.

I mean no disrepect with my comments - I just hate to see an excellent vendor receive totally undeserved bad press.
 
I agree with he above comment. :)

How did you measure the additives? Volume? Mass? How did you measure the 5 gallons?


The test kits are not "off." All come with reference samples, and all test kits were confirmed accurate (by me).

FWIW, our test kits have substantial errors associated with using them. Trying to understand small changes is usually fruitless as they are probably within the testing error. Using a reference sample may not help, since you also have no way of knowing if it is accurate, and if you ran the same sample 20 times on 20 days, I seriously doubt you'll get exactly the same answer.

FWIW, I think he calcium measurement is in error if you get 275 ppm for IO, unless the salinity is very low.
 
I am going to the LFS now to buy some Elos test kits and refractometer calibration fluid. I will let you guys know what happens.
 
I use two different kits,the Salifirt and the Red Sea kits - I get the results and then average them out. Not exactly super science on my part but it matches up to the references at a local marine lab we have that uses the same water (ocean water from the same source and the lab is at Marine Land in Flagler FL).
 
I couldn't find Elos kits anywhere in Atlanta, so I ended up buying the Salifert brand. I only bought calcium ($24.99) because they were out of magnesium.

I also took my refractometer to the store and they calibrated it for me for no charge. They said it was reading 31ppt instead of 35ppt, so it was a little low. I then came home and adjusted by tank water until it was 35ppt (~1.026 SG).

After the salinity was corrected, I ran the calcium test with both Seachem and Salifert. The results:

Seachem - 475ppm
Salifert - 500ppm

So, the difference was minimal. Someway, somehow, my tank levels jumped overnight. I tested alkalinity and it was right where it needs to be (168ppm-180ppm, who knows with the Lamotte kit). Maybe it just took 5 days of nonstop testing/dosing to get things to come up.

I'll pick up the magnesium Salifert kit at the end of this week and see what that does for me.

Take care-
Dustin
 
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