Can I Build a Good LED for a 100g on A $400 Budget

[TropTrea]

I spent 457 and some change at aquastyle so I amover budget I still need to order aluminum channel and possibly fans what your guys opinion on fans. I figure I am still in need of another $150 to invest to complete build

Alumnium channeling works great for me without Fans. You want a minimium of 1" X 1 1/2" channeling with 1" X 3" being ideal. The wider tha cahnneling the closer you put your LED's together. A rough guide is 8 inches square of surface are on the channeling per watt. So a 1/2" channel will give you 6" of surface are ir inch of lenght. You also want at least 1/2" spacing between Channels for cooling.

I find loads of 52" pieces in my local metal dealers scrape bin. Last time I found 5 pieces of 1.75" X 1" X 42" and it costed me under $15.00. Another time I needed two pieces 48" long 2" X 1" channeling and had to buy it off the rack. The cost was slightly over $50.00.

 

[rrasco]

I used 3/4" channel 1/8" thick and I can feel zero heat on them.

 

[TropTrea]

I used 3/4" channel 1/8" thick and I can feel zero heat on them.

Yhe heat factor has several variables. How far apart are your LED's located on this channel? How many Watts are you actualy running your LED's at? How much air circulation you have around the heat sinks.

By theory a heat sinl like you describe should be able to handle 3 watt LED's running at a full 3 watts spaced a miniomium of 3.24" apart. But for long term saftey I would not go that close on a small channel like this.

On a 3" X 1 " channel I have on ne of my tanks I do not heel any heat at all when runnng at around 1.8 Watts of on the LED's but when I bring it up to 3.7 watts per LED there is definatly a considerable amount of heat with a 3 inch spacing between the LED's.

Now keep in mind that most people going with new builds today are using CREE's new 5 Watt LED's and some people are pushing them as high as 7 watts. This means a lott less LED's since these are more effecient than than the older 3 Watt designs , less total wattage used, But they do require slighly more heat sink surface area.

The finned heat sinlks are great if your trying to get a lot of wattage in a very small area. This would be for extremly tall tanks. But with there proicing they are not worth the investment for someone with a 24 inch tall tank or less.

 

[rrasco]

LEDs are run at 450mA/375mA on blue/white respectively, spaced approximately 2.5" apart along 18" of channel. 6 emitters per row. Enclosed housing with an open top. No fans.

 

[Boxfish]

Can I just say one thing about Dennis-Troptrea. He is awesome!! no ego just facts and wants to help and help you have a good experience. On top of it all he knows what he's talking about. He designed my system for me with everything I wanted and left plenty of headroom for changes, upgrades etc!
He is a fantastic resource on this forum.
Thanks again Dennis Im one happy camper!!!!:bounce3::bounce3:

 

[TropTrea]

LEDs are run at 450mA/375mA on blue/white respectively, spaced approximately 2.5" apart along 18" of channel. 6 emitters per row. Enclosed housing with an open top. No fans.

not knoiwing specifics of your LED's the range of votlate they are running at is someplace between 2.6 Volts and 3.4 Volts in that power current range. Different manufactrers being the deciding point where in that range they are.Now looking at that your actual wattage could be as low as 375ma X 2.6 Volts or 863 mw to 1.53 Watts. In the highest case you need roughly 8.5 square inches of cooling area. With 3/4" X 1" X 2.5" channeling your getting about 13 square inches of cooling. So there should not be any real heat that is noticable.

Where the cooling is more of an issue is when your running 1.05 ma or 1.50ma drivers on the leds that are designed to handle that current like the Crees. Now with 1.05 ma and 3.5 volts your talking 3.675 Watts or at 1.5 ma and 3.7 volts your pushing 5.55 Watts. These require considerably more of a heat sink surface area. Then when here people using some of the multi chip LED's that run at 20 watts or even 100 watts cooling becomes an extrem factor.

For this project we talking about 700ma drivers on the bridglux chips that wll draw about 3.6 Volts or run at 2.5 Watts. So they need about 14 square inches of cooling surface. On the 3/4" channeling you would need a spacing of at least 3". for a minimum. I like to be on the safe side so I would go with 4.5". However with wider channeling like even 1" X 2" channel anything over a 2" spacing would work but ion the safe side I would still go with 3" spacing.

On a 60" long tank with 3" spacing you can run 19 LED's per channel. Since the tank is 18" deep you could run up to 7 hannels for a total of 133 LED's. I would not recommend that many even with the bridglux unless you had a tank roughly 36" tall. That would be a lot of LED light and the neighbors might wonder what your lighting up at night. If you convert that to wattage you have 340 Watts of LEDS that can be equivelent to about a pair of 400 watt MH bulbs.

 

[gunlocators]

I have another question. So to cut to the chase how many LEDs should I run on a tank my size that will tell me how much channel to buy. I got confirmation my leds and drivers shipped today so I need to get the channel pretty fast.

Also if i staggard the LEDs can i get 24 on a 1x2 channel

 

[gunlocators]

Also found better price on aluninum channel at www.onlinemetals.com I checked 6 local metal distributors and none cut to size and have drops only sell in 16 and 25ft lengths plus they did not have 6063 only structural 6061 they all had to order and wanted a arm and a leg

 

[TropTrea]

I have another question. So to cut to the chase how many LEDs should I run on a tank my size that will tell me how much channel to buy. I got confirmation my leds and drivers shipped today so I need to get the channel pretty fast.

Also if i staggard the LEDs can i get 24 on a 1x2 channel

Looking for 24 leds per channel calculate 2.5 Watts per LED = 60 watts per channel. You want 5.5 square inches of surface area per watt which gives you 330 square inches total of surface area. 60 long channeling brings you to 5.5 inches surface. 2" channeling = 7.5" of surface area so your safe.

 

[TropTrea]

On the question of hpw many LED's you should run there are some variables which only would be able to answer in time. I would go with 4 channels for an even light distribution over the 18" dimension front to back. This would allow up to 96 LED's which would be over kill in my mind unless you run at reduced power.

I loooked at the web site you listed and pricing is very close to what I pay for the pieces if I cannoing get them off there scrap bin. Only big thing is they will probably charge you shipping. The big difference between archtectural and structural alumnium as far as were concerned is appearance. The strenght part of it does not come in in our usage. Also dont forget to at least 3 cross members to hold the channels together. These can be long enough to sit on top of the edge of your tank or can be suspended from the ceiling.

 

[TropTrea]

Looking what you originaly ordered I would initialy start out running 48 of your Blue LED's and 16 of the 6,500K LED's. This will give you a good idea of a starting point for you to determine what you personaly like as far as color. Yes this is only 64 LEDs but will give you a considerable amount of light and good idea of the color balance.

Spread the leads out 12 Blue and 4 White on each rail. Do not line them up so you have a whites in the same position on two rails. Also spread out your blank spots so when you later add LED's they do not create a color pattern. If you want I can draw you an initial layout.

Now in your listing you list Blues and not Royal Blues. So let me ask which of the two you did order? Most people run just Royal Blues but in my eye it creates too purple of an effect. Therefore I split 50/50 between Blues and Royal Blues.

I also stopped running any chips with shirter wave lenghts than the royal blues. However if you only bought blues and the 420nm chips you may want to run 4 of them later, if you do not run any Royal Blues.

 

[TropTrea]

I started working on a lay out for you and found myself changing a few things.

<a href="http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss90/Dennis8425/?action=view&current=StartLEDlocations.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss90/Dennis8425/StartLEDlocations.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

For starters I went with 5 rather than 4, 2" X 1" rails. this allows you 21 LED's per rail and a total of 105 LED's maximium. I'm adding 3 crossmembers which eliminate 3 of the original 24 spaces for LED's. You will also need 3 additional channels that are 18" long (measure these to be accurate to the dimension of your tank. You can also add two l channels one in front and another in back that are 60" long to stabilize the LED's over your tank . I initialy put in 18 of the the 6,500K LED's marked as yellow, and half 40 of your your blue LED's marked in Blue. This will give you a ratio of 1 to 2.2. I usualy use a lower K LED so this should be equivelent to about 1 to 2.6 ratio I use I personaly think is a little on the White side. You purchased lenses I would use them only on your front row of blues initialy. This gives you initialy 58 LED's running for 145 watts of light. After this is running for a week then it is your personal taste if you will add more whites, more blues, or more LED's with the same ratio to increase your light and get the effect you like.

When you set up your drivers use one for your predawn to post dusk. On that driver have only the blue leds from the front of the tank. This creates a fantastic florescent pop period before the other LED's turn on.

If you have any other questions message me here. I still question of your blues are true blues or royal blues. This will have a big bearing on future add ons.

 

[gunlocators]

Cool well my LEDs show to be in Anchorage Alaska so they should be here soon Any reason to run the 10,000K Whites

Second question I want to build my fixture / heat sink like boxfish
I just measured my hood and can remove the top panel in case i needed to raise the LEDs up higher then canopy height. I can actually build a fixture 57" x 14 1/4" I was thinking 6 pieces of 57" channel and 4 pieces of 14 1/4" angle this would be like box fish fixture. What do you think with the BoxFish style fixture do i need cross members I never seen any in his pic except the end pieces of angle

 

[TropTrea]

I think 6 channels would be over kill. At 57" long it would give you room for 132 LED's. You do not need nearly that much unless you want drive them all at 350ma or 1 Watt each. As far as using Box fishes design it will work fine as well. Ususaly there is a cnter brace on a tank which is a nice place for a third suport. Box Fish hangs his fixture while I was thinking you could set it on the tank dirrectly. The angle iron across thefront and back holding up the support which then hold up the rails. Roughly the LED's are 1" above the top of the tank . You could also add a plexiglass shield between the lights and the water.

On the 10,000K LED's as I believe I said I normally use Neurtral Whites that are 4,000K. The higher you go in a K rating the more Blue and the less red light the light source is creating.

An equal effect to the eye would be
1 4,000K to 3 Blues
2 6,500K to 5 Blues
2 10,000K to 3 blues
3 14,000K to 2 Blues
1 20,000K to no blues.

So I suggest you use the 6,500K first then if you want more white add some of the other 10,000K whites you already bought.

 

[gunlocators]

Not 6 channels for LEDs sorry it would be 4 channels the other 2 would be side braces. I do have a center brace however ot holds mu automatic feeder.. I really want the LEDs to be about 8-10" above my tank if possible.

 

[TropTrea]

Not 6 channels for LEDs sorry it would be 4 channels the other 2 would be side braces. I do have a center brace however ot holds mu automatic feeder.. I really want the LEDs to be about 8-10" above my tank if possible.

If yourusing 4 Channels then and your channels are 57" long you need to go wih roughly a 2" spacing between LED's. to give you the possibility of 28 per channel and a total of 112. But I doubt it you will actualy want more than about 80 LED's in the end for your size tank.

for the 8" to 10 " height I'd go like boxfish and add eye bolts on the corners than hang the fisture from the ceiling. The other option would be to build up the braces on the fixture to that height which is a lot to build up.

Also with that height I would definatly use lenses on your front row of LED's minimium. With the live rock build up in the rear the light does not have to penetrat as far in the rear so lenses are not that imortant.

 

[gunlocators]

Just a update. I have not got in my aluminum but did get my LEDs heres a list of the LEDs they sent

84 RB LEDs
6 Red LEDs
19 420nm LEDs
32 10000K White LEDs
11 6500K White LEDs

I wound up with more 10000K then I did 6500K

With these what do you recommend

 

[TropTrea]

with what you listed that came in I would start with an 76 LED set up. You have the option of going with 4 channels spacing the LED's 2 1/2" apart, or 5 Channens spacing them 3 " apart. Since it is a hanging fixture you don;t have to worry about spacing for the cross rails as they can sit on top rather than under the channels.

4 Chanels with 2" spacing between LEDs will give you 28 per rail and or 112 spaces, while going with the 5 you can space out to 2.5" and get 22 per channel for a total of
110 spaces. I perfer the larger spacing for more assurance of good cooling. But you sould still be safe at 700 ma with the 2" spacing.

The initial LED's I'd use with your ELN 60-48 drivers your LED colection would be
Driver 1 Pre Dawn to Post Dusk 20 Royal Blues. Running at 650 ma
Driver 2 Dawn to Dusk 10 Royal Blues, and 10 10,000K at 650 ma
Driver 3 Mid Day 10 Royal Blues and 10 6,500K's at 650 ma
Driver 4 Mid Day 8 Royal Blues and 8 10,000K's.

This allows you the 5th driver for future add ons as well as spaces on each driver for additional LED's if you later want to add them in.

Keep in mind if you already do not have the drivers I would recommend the HLN, 40-54 which would eliminate your issue of balancing strings. I'm not sure how eacy it is to balance strings with different LED's other than Cree's. The HNL 40-54 will only handle 18 LED's but you will not have to worry about balancing with these drivers.

 

[gunlocators]

As far as drivers i got 5 Meanwell ELN-60-48D with this order

also any reason to throw in any red or uv leds?

 

[TropTrea]

As far as drivers i got 5 Meanwell ELN-60-48D with this order

also any reason to throw in any red or uv leds?

I am personaly not a convinced that that the addition of UV or Red give an advantage without also creating problems.

As far as Red goes. With the blue lighting the addition of red chifts the color tint from more purple. I do not like this effect. Second an excess of red light has been known to cause bleaching on some corals. Third light in the red spectrum will boost the growth of cyan bacteria in the tank also known as cyan algea which is undesirable.

UV llight is a very touchy as well. Excess of UV light will actualy kill some of the algea within corals needed to suport there growth. Secondly UV will again create a more purple appearnce to the tank. I would not use any UV chips that are rated to peak at 430 nm or less. Chips below 440 nm I would use very sparingly.