Cat liter boxes and ammonia

HONDACBR600RR

New member
I just searched and found alot of informative info on how cat litter boxes may produce ammonia in our tanks. This makes perfect sense as to why I havent been able to find the cause of my ammonia problem. So my questions are, today I removed the liter boxes from the room where the tank is, what are the next steps I should take to eliminate the .25-.5 ammonia spike I have been battling? I just ran out of nitrite tests and I think I will order the Salifert brand as I have read good things, my nitrates read about 15-20ppm.
 
Who's ammonia test kit are you using ? Get some Amquel, most LFS have it and do one dose and re-test for ammonia 2 hrs later.
 
I have a red sea test, I ordered a salifert test and amquel plus, it will be here in a few days, im also going to perform a 20% water change now that the litter boxes have been removed.
 
I'd get a second opinion on the ammonia kit, too. They often fail and show small levels of ammonia in everything. Mine did. The Red Sea kits seem to have a particularly short lifespan. Some RO/DI water would be a good way to do a quick test.
 
Might be the test kit .... personally have had problems with several of their tests - one being that the ammonia test would not test zero on anything .... always showed .25-.5 no matter what the water was that it was testing. Hadn't done an ammonia test in ages but had an issue that I was concerned with some die-off ...... did the ammonia test, got a .5 reading, dosed amquel and did water changes for two days ..... still got a .5 reading ..... did 20-25% water changes every day for a week trying to get the level down - but it wouldn't drop. Bought another test kit and took water to the lfs .... both showed zero, Red Sea still showed .25 or .5. Out of curiousity that is when I tested my other tank, Gulf water and fresh mixed batches of salt water ..... all at .25-.5. Kit was about 5 months old at the time.

So, at least get the water tested at the LFS or with your new tests before getting rid of the cat!! :p
 
I'd be curious what fool is posting that

That is ME Jeff ;) And it is a well known FACT and issue for many.
 
Since this is the "Reef Chemistry" forum, I'd like to know how the ammonia from a cat box makes it into a tank. I can't imagine the process or how high the ammonia gas would have to be in the room in order to affect the tank.
 
Well, it is not rocket science :lol:

Cat urine is fairly high in ammonia and kitty litter can only remove that ammonia which has been converted to ionized ammonia, NH4+. As NH3 gas, it will rise an travels in the room, gets picked up by air pumps and skimmer inlets and settles out on top of the water. NONE of you have NEVER been a house before with a cat and smelled ammonia ??? It is no different that high room air CO2 lowering your pH. And the dirtier the cat box the worse it is. It is not just an issue in reef tanks but also FW or uncovered RO/DI containers. You NEVER place a tank or water holding container near a cat box. Many have had this issue and some have tested the water for ammonia with cat box near by removed it and tested again with no ammonia. An I use to have cat and had the same issues and that was 2 decades ago. There are quite a few post on boards about it, to include RC

From Nanoreefs:
The approximate distance from the cat box to the tank is about 9 feet, and around a wall.

The ammonia test readings performed in triplicate from the Picotank were in all in excess of 8.0 mg/L.

At about day four I placed a small glass of RO/DI water in a clean drinking glass and placed it on the sink counter for one day. Initial reading for ammonia was zero.

After one day of being exposed to the air in the bathroom with the litter box, I tested the water in the drinking glass. Final reading for ammonia was between 2.0 and 4.0 mg/L!

Just to be sure the test kit wasn't corrupted, I used the same test kit in the same vial (after a rinse) with fresh RO/DI water taken from the same source as the water in the glass. Reading was back to zero.


I would say that gaseous ammonia can dissolve very easily into open tank aquarium water. Very rapidly too. The smell from my litter box was not overpowering, but noticeable. I would recommend anyone who may have a cat litter box in proximity to their aquarium use caution and run a similar test. Especially if you have a protein skimmer air intake nearby.





From Aquaria Central:
Your tank isn't near a cat litter pan is it? i know when trying to cycle one of my tanks i ended up with 8.0 ppm ammonia spontaniously because my ait pump was in the stand and the cat box was only a couple feet away. Ammonia gass dissolves in water very rapidly.



From RC:
IMO all those hang on all the hang on tank constant moniters don't work. I put one in my freshwater tank for PH and Ammonia and the\ said nothing for about a month and the Ph kept reading way too low, despite my Ph test. I decided to test the water and I had a huge amount of ammonia and my PH was still above what it said. i changed both the cartridges and they continued to read incorrectly a few days later, and changed again with similar results. Also, Never, EVER put a fish tank next to a cat box with little room circulation. You will have sky high nitrates and huge ammonia problems. It is what killed my freshwater aquarium. Just my experiencs though.
 
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Very interesting, thanks for the explanation boomer. My mixing station is right next to my cat box. Ive never had any problems but this is definately something to think about as a precautionary measure.
 
Hi Boomer. I really don't know the answer to this queastion so humor me... I'm not even sure I'm asking it right. Do all gasses have an equalibrium level with sea water?

Thanks,

John
 
This is disturbing as I'm looking at the litter box now about 8' away from my 125g sump with the skimmer in it. I think I'm going to test ammonia at this point.
 
Yes, it is a based on what is called Gas Partial Pressure. Meaning, if the gas pressure is higher in the air than in the water the gas will diffuse into the water until the two are in equilibrium with each other. However, many times there is no real equilibrium as the gas may not be able to diffuse in or out as it rate of accumulation is higher than its rate of diffusion. A good example of this is FW Planted Tanks, where the plants can remove the CO2 faster from the water than can diffuse into the water from the air. Thus, giving a very high pH. In a "tight" house where the CO2 can accumulate it will have less issues as the PP is higher, than say a "loose" house where CO2 can escape. This high pH in PT can be counter acted by injecting CO2 into the tank lowering the pH. The opposite is a FOT tank, where the pH drops from a CO2 increase from the fish faster than it an diffuse out of the water. In a tight house this pH drop will be more dramatic than a loose house.

Today's PP for CO2 is higher than 100 years ago. So, if we equilibrate the CO2 with the air the pH now will be lower than 100years ago as the PP CO2 is higher now. Think of PP like a balloon filled with air and the balloon is above the tank and we put the end in the water and release the air what happens ? That is like a high air PP. Now put the balloon under water and release it. What happens ? That is like a high water PP. If the air and water PP are equal no gas can go out or come in. So, kinda pretend the air is 10 psi of PP and the water is 10 psi of PP. They are thus equal. But if one is 10 psi and the other is 8 psi they are not and diffusion will take place till both equal 9 psi PP. Something like Ammonia gas will be swift and quick entering the tank, as the tank has about zippo Ammonia PP.




Hemlock

If you take good care of your liter box and have good air circulation it may not be an issue at all.
 
... this is crazy! lol.. makes me rethink about having a catbox period. Grossness.
Good info boomer, I as well as others never would have thought about that.
 
Thanks Boomer, I'll definitely keep on top of the box better than my wife or I have been, as for the good circulation, the only opening is the door at the top of the stairs witch is open most of the time and the basement door witch is closed all the time so I will have to think of something to get more circulation without spending a lot of money.
 
I wonder if type of litter used has any effect on this problem, or the time periods? I doubt it clumping permanently removes the ammonia, but would it at least slow it down getting into the air?

I use clumping litter, and some brands of that have a very noticeable ammonia smell after being used and cleaned for 1-2 weeks. The one I use currently has no smell whatsoever after that same time period. Clay cat litter smells awful IMO.
 
I would think it would take quite a bit of ammonia to cause an issue in your tank from your cat box. Unless the box is rarely cleaned and you have it right next to an air intake then I doubt that is the issue.
On a side note...Completely empty all litter out once every 2 or 4 weeks. Wash it out with dawn soap and rinse. Dry...then put fresh litter in there. Clumping litter is the best as it absorbs the urine and if you really want some amazing stuff try Arm and Hammer litter that stuff is amazing!
Removing the box from the area of the tank is a good idea as litter is very dusty. You dont want that dust making its way to your tank
 
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