Cement Reef Take #2

[dugg]

Ok, here we go i am going to try to build the cement and foam tank again using the same proccess that wayne uses with flat 1/2 inch foam. This is foam from the craft store used for seat cushions. It is 1/2 inch and comes in large sheets.

First i measured and cut pieces to fit all panels in the tank except the bottom and front glass. I also cut one piece 1 inch wide to place at the bottom of the front glass. Everything was glued in useing MOD-PODGE craft glue. It is water based and non toxic. Coat all panels with a good thick layer of the glue. The foam soaks it up so don't be greedy with it. I used one full bottle on this 30 gallon. After glueing everthing down let the glue cure for 24 hrs.

Using this foam the cement soaks into it almost completly through making a nice pourus backing for the cement walls.

 

[dugg]

Here are wayne's directions. They are a little vague, but he had filled in the details to me, and i will try and make it more clear and explain as i go along.

http://waynesallee.com/makereefcementtank.htm

 

[dugg]

The floor got poured in this morning. It is Portland cement poured about 1/2 inch thick. It is poured on top of a sheat of 10mil plastic sheeting. This needs to harden for 24 hrs before starting on the walls.

 

[Russ Braaten]

Is the foam there just to keep the glass from breaking? Protecting the glass from the cement

 

[dugg]

The foam is there to protect the glass. It. gives the cement room to expand and contract as you build it up. Without the foam, the glass would break as the cement dries. When it is finished, it could be cut into sections and removed if you wanted it out. The glue will actually release and dissolve when it is filled with water. Wayne actually has the center back section taken out of his tank to allow people walking by his store to see in the tank.

 

[luvabunny]

OK Doug, I'm not following here real well.
Why would you want to take a perfectly good glass tank and cement it? Are you making an actual cement tank and using the glass as a prop, or are you simply adding to the aesthetics of the glass tank, and using the concrete to form ledges and shelves, etc? If that's the purpose, why don't you just use that spray on sealer stuff? It is form-able, and I have heard people say it grows coralling fairly well.
Also, I'm not sure I follow how you are going to remove the foam and keep the concrete on your glass, and doesn't adding that much concrete make your tank so heavy it's unliftable? I would think that would make ever moving it impossible.
Sorry for all the questions, but I don't visualize real well, or really understand why you would do it in the first place. Keep those pics coming, maybe I'll figure it out.

 

[dugg]

The foam stays in the tank. It becomes part of the cement. The cement is for aesthetics basicly. It is for building caves and ledges. The reason for cement instead of a spray on sealer is that portland cement is pure limestone which is what reefs are made of thus giving the corals a natural base to grow on. It will be heavy but hopefully not unliftable, since it is only 30 gallons. Mostly i am doing it due to bordom lol, and i love the tank that Wayne has built like this. It looks like a natural cliff in a reef, and it allows you to place a lot more corals in the reef since you are able to use the walls and still use some rock in the middle also, without having so much rock stacked up that you get dead spots in you circulation.
When it is finished there will be no sign of any equipment at all. Even the returns are concealed in the cement, giving the tank a natural look.

 

[luvabunny]

..........oh, OK.......
good luck with it! Doesn't it cut down on your actual gallons? Looks like it takes up alot of space. Not being able to see the plumbing tho would be a real benefit.

Have you considered just painting the sides and back glass, and adhering actual rocks to them? I've thought about trying this, especially in a tall tank where dead spots are a problem. Seahorses like to swim UP, and oftentimes the corals, especially the softies I'm so fond of, aren't real tall. This way you will still gain the bacterial benefit of actual rock in the tank, and raise the viewing area from just the bottom to anywhere in the tank. If you are picky about what rocks you use to glue, it shouldn't cut down on your water volume much either, and still give you plenty of shelves and caves.
Not that you shouldn't go on with what you are doing - just something I have given thought to once or twice. As I said, keep those pics coming. I can't wait to see what it looks like once it's finished.
=)

 

[dugg]

I have the base wall in now, it was done in 3 coats to slowly stiffen the foam up. I forgot to take pics of coat 2 but after coat 3 it is now about 1/8 inch thick. Tomorrow i will start adding the texture to the walls. After seeing the rock travis has made i am going to try some oyster shell mixed in for the texturing. So far everything is working out good, hopefully it will keep going that way.

Coat #1 was very light just to stiffen and seal the foam.

Coat 2 covered but was still pourus and 3 completly covered to roughly 1/8 thickness all over.

 

[dugg]

Here is the first bit of texture work. I am using crushed coral instead of oyster shell because it is more porous.

These are the returns i have made with some plastic tubing and portland and coral mix. They will mount in each back bottom corner directing the water up and to the center.

This is as close to plumbing as you will be able to see inside the tank when it is finished.

 

[Schmit]

Dugg,

Nice meeting you today (the couple with the two wild kids running around). Thanks for the link. As you probably overheard when I was talking to Wayne we are new to this. We are going to take setting up the Reef Tank very slow. We have a lot to learn and want to (try) and do it right the first time.

We'll be watching (and following the steps) your progress.

 

[dugg]

Hi Schmit, it was nice meeting you today also, and welcome to the hobby and the forum. If you take it slow and easy and do a lot of reading you will be addicted and Wayne will be able to buy that island he's been wanting in no time lol.
I noticed you were real interested in wayne's cement display tank. You should know before getting in too deep that you will have BIG BUCKS invested by the time you get to that level. The lighting alone on that set up will run you $600 to $1000. You will need 1 pound of live rock per gallon of water at $5 to $7 per pound, and that is just light and rock. There is still plumbing, pumps, skimmers, a sump, sand, and a stand to build or buy all before one piece of coral goes in the tank.
Not trying to scare you off or anything because this is a great hobby, but it can be expensive and you should be aware of that before you start.
Personally i wouldn't reccomend that you start out by jumping in with both feet and attempting to build a reef like that. You should start by setting up your tank with live rock and sand and keeping a few fish and maybe a few easier to keep corals that don't require the expensive lighting. If you talk to wayne and look at the plumbing on his display tank, you can set up a real good skimmer for cheap. Otherwise a skimmer can be quite expensive, but it is an absolutely nessessary piece of equipment for salt water.
You can find endless information and help on this site if you decide that you want to become poor and insane with the rest of us reef nuts. On the main page under beginners is a good place to start at, but you won't find a smarter, nicer, more helpfull bunch of people anywhere then here on the COMAS forum with us OKIES lol.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

You said it Doug. That was the perfect way to explain the hobby, and a nice little bump for "us southerners"

 

[Schmit]

Dugg,

We've been wanting to do a salt tank for quite some time and know the cost of getting into it... that is why I'm putting off the purchase of my Lamborghini Gallardo until next year.

I do want to end up with a Reef Tank like Wayne's (and hopefully if I partally fund his island he'll let me and the family holiday there) but do plan on starting off slow.

My current plan (unless it is not doable) is the following....

1 - Read, Post, Read, Ask Questions, then READ somemore.

2 - Set up a Ce-Ment Reef Tank (i.e. plumbing, pumps, skimmers, a sump, sand). Currrent time frame is probably 2 - 3 months for this... still have to design it (layout wise).

3 - Use existing lights (normal floresent tank lights) fill tank with salt water and get that right. (1 month ?)

4 - Add live rock and a few fishies. Let this perk and see if they survive. (1 month ?)

4 - Add simple (i.e. normal lighting) corals and see if they live.

If this works switch over to the required lighting for a real reef tank and start (again... slooooowly) adding live coral and kewler fishies.

 

[dugg]

It's alive!!! Well it's finished. Just have to let it sit over night and then fill it with water and start the curing process. I also made some DIY rock so everything matches. The front glass is too dirty to get front photos right now and i don't want to take a razor to it until it is full of water to avoid any scratches.

I sprayed it down with a water and RIT dye mixture for the finall dry time. The rocks were splattered with liquid RIT dye when they were made. I decided on making the rock instead of caves to avoid it being too heavy.

This acseterator stuff is unreal, it is going to be great for mounting corals. It sets up in 2 or 3 minutes, even under water and isn't messy at all.

 

[dugg]

Sounds like a plan Schmit, except for the lamborghini. It may never come now lol. Like i said , not trying to scare you off or anything. I just see so many people get in to this hobby thinking they can do it on a budget, only to get frustrated and sell it all for pennies on the dollar. You can drop 2 or 3 thousand in a tank and it is only worth around $500 to sell if you are lucky. First thing i would tell you to purchase is a PH monitor so you can see how your reef is working hour by hour to understand how different things effect the water. Wayne sells a good one for $89 called a pin point PH monitor. Your PH tells a lot about how everything else is balanced, like alkalinity, oxygen levels, and a myriad of other things. If you are going to plumb your system like Wayne has his, get one of his skimmers, they work real good. I am setting one up with my new system. Good luck and see you in the soup line lol.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I LOVE the shelves that you added in your tank. Care to tell us how that was accomplished? Was it a DIY rock that you just glued up there?

 

[dugg]

The shelves were made using acseterator. It makes the cement harden in 3 minutes so you can form it and it is solid within minutes. It actually almost sets it too fast.
You use the acseterator to mix the cement instead of water. The cement starts getting warm after just a minute or two. That is when you know you better hurry and get it where you want it, because is almost flashes to being hard.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

where and what is the acseterator? Is it a type of chemical or is that the brand name? I see how it works, but Im confused on identifying it. If that makes sense

 

[dugg]

Acseterator is a chemical that hardens cement really fast. It is a product that Wayne here at my LFS invented. I have no idea what is in it, but it is amazing. He originally made it for securing corals to rock. It will make cement harden and stay together even under water.
I have used baking soda to harden cement before also, but this is something else completely. Wayne sells it from his store. You can order it from him at http://waynespets.com/ It comes in an 8 oz bottle for $8.61 a bottle.
It makes securing corals to your rock simple and it looks natural since it is just portland cement. Also since portland cement is limestone, coraline algae grows on it almost immediately.