Cheap, effective 12v Li-ion Battery Backup for Vortech

Those are used for my uverse phone backup. I have one sitting behing my entertainment center right now. I wonder if the plug is changed if it automatically switches on on power fail. I'd say my mp10 is more important than a phone we don't use:-). Now just gotta do it without the wife seeing ha ha.
 
If its uses 12v, and has its own charger built into it, yes you can probably use it by switching the plug out with the ecotech one w fuse.
 
So it would just kick on during power fail right? These got to be from Uverse customers. I would say they are relatively new mine has a date of 2011 on it.. I might just buy one of these instead of ruining the one I have and possibly having to pay full price for it. If anything I'll give them the one I buy and take the one that I've had for 6 months that's never been used. Good thread bhazard.. Now where the hell and I gonna put this thing next to my tank ha ha.
 
This isn't exactly a new discovery. If you google DIY Vortech backup, there are a few plans on making them, in other forums as well as this one. I just don't feel like having a 15lb battery near my tank. No room for it.
 
OK.. My bad I guess. Didn't think to search it till I read this.. Didn't want to make it like I was derailing the thread so I will unsubscribe..
 
OK.. My bad I guess. Didn't think to search it till I read this.. Didn't want to make it like I was derailing the thread so I will unsubscribe..

Its not derailing. Its useful info. If the uverse unit looked just like the Belkin and was 12v, it would work. The Li-ion with the charger already installed, or the Belkin 12v unit, is just the easiest way to make these backup units without spending $160+ on the Ecotech one.
 
about how long would one of those belkin units run 2 mp40's? also Do you think these would be able to handle everything from the tank besides the lights like return pump and skimmer? I have a generator already but for times when I am not home or just short power outages these might work well.
 
about how long would one of those belkin units run 2 mp40's? also Do you think these would be able to handle everything from the tank besides the lights like return pump and skimmer? I have a generator already but for times when I am not home or just short power outages these might work well.

Not long, but long enough for a short outage. If an 18000mah Ecotech backup can run an MP40 for 24-36 hours, expect less than half of that from any 7000mah battery. Still better than nothing, and cheap.
 
hmmmmmmmm. wonder it Belkin makes any bigger units. I have room next to my tank in a little cabinet I have that stores all my tank related items so size would really be an issue.
 
Those aren't as bad due to matched components and voltages. Once you get into multi cell aftermarket lipos, and the equipment to charge and balance them, the failure links increase and you really have to learn the care for the batteries.
 
Lipo fire vids on YouTube are neat.


Cheap and easy were the flags, other than that I think lipo is the best we have so far.

I plan on making a battery powered pico with about 1.5 amp hrs packed in the base, 3s lipos for Rc use will be the power plant.
 
I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I'd like to offer a few thoughts before you play with these very cool new batteries.

I do safety stuff for a living, but that doesn't mean that I don't take risks or don't enjoy cool things that blow up and stuff. I am working with some researchers trying to keep these things from taking down commercial airliners. There is broad consensus (everyone except the battery manufacturer's lobby) that these things have taken down 4 commercial airliners so far.

So here are a few facts, observations and suggestions.

- There are more of these things in the world than anybody could imagine. They are everywhere and they do fail if abused or damaged.

- The charging and protection circuits are vital It would be best to use an integrated and proven package "re-purposed" as a back-up with minimal modifications.

- Cheap Li-ion batteries fail a lot more than expensive brand-name units.

- A short in a Li-ion battery will trigger thermal runaway. The same thing happens if you get a short in an unprotected circuit hooked to a Li-ion. Once that occurs it is very difficult to stop it without cooling it with massive amounts of water. If a cell goes into runaway it will catch on fire and explode burning metal. If you get a fire, it cannot be extinguished by conventional means.

- If one cell goes into runaway, the tests show that it will ignite all other cells in the proximity.


Risk is a combination of probability and consequence. If you understand that, you can do seemingly crazy things safely (and that is called fun).

So lets look at the PROBABILITY of a short causing a thermal runaway in this application.

1. Cheap batteries from ebay ++
2. Hundreds of people doing DIY with various skills ++++
3. Equipment placed next to saltwater sump exposed to splashes, leaks, overflows and salt creep. +++++

It is pretty clear that the probability of somebody having a short is extremely high. If you mitigate those factors and things get safer.

No lets consider CONSEQUENCES;

- Minimum outcome if an unprotected short occurs.... Fire that destroys stand and tank but is extinguished when the tank or sump fails (serious).

- Worse outcome (but still probable).... Fire that destroys dwelling with possible injury or loss of life (catastrophic)

So when you have a very high probability combined with serious or catastrophic consequences, it doesn't mean you don't do it. It just means you have a serious think about it.

That is all I am saying.
 
Its not being a wet blanket, its a very valid point. You are at the mercy of the overcharge protection circuit. Any battery is potentially unsafe if overcharged, but Li-ion is moreso.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2A89DSHsgE

The official Ecotech battery backup could fail too, it is not immune to any of these conditions if a short occured. There would be more QC in preventing this, but it can still happen. The Ecotech uses a sealed lead acid battery, I was wrong before saying it was Li-ion.

The only truly safe way would be to never run a battery ever. Just like the only way to avoid car accidents 100% is to never drive. You can only take the steps needed to ensure as much safety as you can. For me, I would put more trust in a manufactured battery/charger with minimal adjustments like these li-ion setups, over a DIY battery and separate charger. I don't like the possibility of overcharge protection failure though.

Although I'd hate paying the markup, I might just get the Ecotech one to reduce the chance of any issues. Otherwise, I would have to store the Li-ion pack at 40% charged on my concrete garage floor in a semi open area, and only charge it up before a storm for peace of mind. Even then it can still be unsafe, but at least if offers more safety than being next to the tank.
 
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I agree with most of what you're saying bvoss. The exception is about cheap things(batteries) being more prone to failure. If by cheap you mean poorly made then we agree. If by cheap you mean inexpensive then I don't believe there is a correlation.

Most of the products we purchase for this hobby are manufactured in factories by underpaid, unenthusiastic workers in a foreign country. These things are made with the cheapest(least expensive) components both suitable and available. Few products aside from custom aquariums are manufactured by the same set of hands from beginning to end. Fewer still by the hands of a skilled craftsman.

I dare say, if indeed you have the requisite knowledge and skills to roll your own then you will likely produce a superior product with more reliability than one from the factory.
 
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