Cheato Under 24/7 Lighting as Nutrient Export?
- Thread starter happyclam
- Start date
Yes, growing macroalgae helps a lot. In my system it is the main nutrient export method. The more you grow, the more effective it is. The sand bed should be fairly independent of the macroalgae, but if somehow the sand bed was super effective (not too likely), it could make nitrate become a limiting nutrient for the macroalgae, and limit its ability to export phosphate.
Sounds good.
Happy reefing.
Happy reefing.
stugray
Premium Member
Randy,
I have been growing both caulerpa & chaeto in my sump together for almost two years now & both did quite well.
Recently, the Caulerpa grows fine but the chaeto is slowly disappearing & I dont even get enough to harvest anymore.
What is happening? I suspect that the Caulerpa is out performing the chaeto, or my cheato needs a "boost" from a new strain??
System: 300 Gal total, 125 Display, ~12 fish, tons of LPS/SPS, heavy feeding , Macro-sump ~75Gal, 65W PC 24/7.
LOTs of flow past the chaeto & less past the caulerpa. Nitrates ~5 or less.
Thoughts?
Stu
I have been growing both caulerpa & chaeto in my sump together for almost two years now & both did quite well.
Recently, the Caulerpa grows fine but the chaeto is slowly disappearing & I dont even get enough to harvest anymore.
What is happening? I suspect that the Caulerpa is out performing the chaeto, or my cheato needs a "boost" from a new strain??
System: 300 Gal total, 125 Display, ~12 fish, tons of LPS/SPS, heavy feeding , Macro-sump ~75Gal, 65W PC 24/7.
LOTs of flow past the chaeto & less past the caulerpa. Nitrates ~5 or less.
Thoughts?
Stu
I believe that in many systems, Caulerpa racemosa is a bit more efficient at taking up nutrients and over time it wins the competition with Chaetomorpha. That happened in my system as well. I just use Caulerpa now.
InsaneClownFish
New member
Randy is a brave brave soul
Randy, your above discussion about a DSB limiting the nutrient intake for the cheato is intriguing. I've struggled with the idea of adding a DSB to the fuge of my upcoming 180 system.
In essence, I wanted to have just one gigantic cheato tumbler without the dsb.
At this point, I'm working on a very simplistic show fuge that would sit directly next to the 180. This tank would either be a 75g or 90gRR.
I've come to love some of the show fuge/ lagoon tanks I've seen here on RC. With that in mind I was planning cheato, some fuge friendly inverts, and various macro algaes including sea grass and possibly mangrooves.
All of the tanks I've seen have a decent sized sand bed- just short of or at least DSB in nature.
Can you elaborate a little more on idea of the DSB counteracting the effectiveness of the macros, and can you give some insight and advice on how to successfully set up the display type fuge with a DSB? Is it just a matter of perfecting flow and intake into the fuge?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Randy, your above discussion about a DSB limiting the nutrient intake for the cheato is intriguing. I've struggled with the idea of adding a DSB to the fuge of my upcoming 180 system.
In essence, I wanted to have just one gigantic cheato tumbler without the dsb.
At this point, I'm working on a very simplistic show fuge that would sit directly next to the 180. This tank would either be a 75g or 90gRR.
I've come to love some of the show fuge/ lagoon tanks I've seen here on RC. With that in mind I was planning cheato, some fuge friendly inverts, and various macro algaes including sea grass and possibly mangrooves.
All of the tanks I've seen have a decent sized sand bed- just short of or at least DSB in nature.
Can you elaborate a little more on idea of the DSB counteracting the effectiveness of the macros, and can you give some insight and advice on how to successfully set up the display type fuge with a DSB? Is it just a matter of perfecting flow and intake into the fuge?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
BCreefmaker
New member
i found just like randy and stugray that cheato, for whatever reason seems to slow down after a certain period of time, however my other macros are growing at the same rate.
Can you elaborate a little more on idea of the DSB counteracting the effectiveness of the macros, and can you give some insight and advice on how to successfully set up the display type fuge with a DSB? Is it just a matter of perfecting flow and intake into the fuge?
I expect that macroalgae will probably predominate over a sand bed in terms of nutrient export, but in general, we have balanced nutrient export methods, and unbalanced ones. Growing macroalgae is balanced between N and P. So is aerobic bacterial growth. Not sure on skimming, but it is somewhat balanced. A DSB or a denitrator are not, and are overbalanced to N export. GFO and other phosphate binders are overbalanced to P export. If you have any excessive amount of unbalanced export, then you may deprive a balanced method in the same tank from functioning properly.
That has been demonstrated by folks using so much GFO that macroalgae stops growing. I'm not sure whether a DSB or denitrator can do the same from the N side, but it is at least possible.
I expect that macroalgae will probably predominate over a sand bed in terms of nutrient export, but in general, we have balanced nutrient export methods, and unbalanced ones. Growing macroalgae is balanced between N and P. So is aerobic bacterial growth. Not sure on skimming, but it is somewhat balanced. A DSB or a denitrator are not, and are overbalanced to N export. GFO and other phosphate binders are overbalanced to P export. If you have any excessive amount of unbalanced export, then you may deprive a balanced method in the same tank from functioning properly.
That has been demonstrated by folks using so much GFO that macroalgae stops growing. I'm not sure whether a DSB or denitrator can do the same from the N side, but it is at least possible.
InsaneClownFish
New member
Thanks Randy that clarifies it nicely for me :thumbsup:
BCreefmaker
New member
i think the point he was trying to make was that your DSB will take up some nitrogen, however it will not take up any phosphate. for macro to grow it needs both, and if you take up just nitrogen with your sand bed there might not be enough left over for the macro to effectively absorb the rest of the phosphates.
wayne in norway
New member
I'm ni the position now that my use of P removers is starting to hurt my caulerpa as well as the nuisance algae I've (successfully) gotten rid of.
My usual concern with growing macroalgae on top of a dsb is that the macroalgae slows the water velocity and thus limits water and debris transport in and out of the dsb. I stuck an extra powerhead in my refugium/sump to get round this as well as routing my skimmer outlet to flow into there.
My usual concern with growing macroalgae on top of a dsb is that the macroalgae slows the water velocity and thus limits water and debris transport in and out of the dsb. I stuck an extra powerhead in my refugium/sump to get round this as well as routing my skimmer outlet to flow into there.
happyclam
New member
Will cheato work fine as a nutrient exporter if only provided with a 16 hr. light cycle? (reverse cycle of my tank, overlaps by one hour. ie: maintanks lights on 10am-10pm
refugium lights on 9pm-11am
Also, I only have 2 18w PCs over a 12"x18" area (the fuge), is that enough light for cheato?
refugium lights on 9pm-11am
Also, I only have 2 18w PCs over a 12"x18" area (the fuge), is that enough light for cheato?
If you have enough in bright enough light, it will be adequate, whether the cycle is 12/12 or 24 h on. If you do not have enough or bright enough light, then the difference between 16 h on and 8 off vs 24 on may not be all that big.
In your case, it depends on how much nutrient load you expect it to export, but if it is for a well fed 135, I expect it is not adequate size or brightness to carry the load itself.
In your case, it depends on how much nutrient load you expect it to export, but if it is for a well fed 135, I expect it is not adequate size or brightness to carry the load itself.
happyclam
New member
OK, I minimized my fish load, so hopefully the algae can support it. I was going to start of with a pair of Ocellaris clowns, fed once daily, and if everything checks out, I might get a Fourline Wrasse to keep any Tridacnids happy. Would the algae (as well as DSB) be able to support that, as well as a bunch of corals?
As I mentioned in the other thread, yes, it could it appropriately sized. But a skimmer would be nice for additional export as well as reduced yellowness to the water.
itZme
New member
I had chaeto dying back after being lit 24/7 for several months. I switched to about a 14 hr cycle that overlaps the display lighting to help the chaeto ramp up the photosynthesis before the corals stop theirs fully.
I found that it came back and grew faster with a 10 hr dark period so I would recommend to anyone that is having it die back to try a dark period in your fuge lighting to see if it helps. The worst thing that could happen is that you save some electricity
I have a bunch of the "fern caulerpa" that is growing and not pushing the chaeto back at all for over 2 years now. They both grow at a steady rate and my PH fluctuates from 8.42 to 8.36.
I found that it came back and grew faster with a 10 hr dark period so I would recommend to anyone that is having it die back to try a dark period in your fuge lighting to see if it helps. The worst thing that could happen is that you save some electricity
I have a bunch of the "fern caulerpa" that is growing and not pushing the chaeto back at all for over 2 years now. They both grow at a steady rate and my PH fluctuates from 8.42 to 8.36.
