Chemiclean - First Time User - My Experience

[JayinToronto]

One thing I've noticed, is that the dinos loooove growing in my chaeto bed. So much so that I'm considering removing it until things get a little more under control. I just feel like it's a breeding ground for the dinos rather than a competitive nutrient transporter.

Has anyone else noticed this?


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[anemoneguy]

I had bad dyno and also thought it was Cyano. I will share how I best that nasty stuff. First did a three day lights out. Purchased a uv sterilizer and vacuumed the stuff off rocks for a week. Don’t do water changes as this will fuel the problem by giving more nutrients for the dyno to feed on. Just try to siphon out much as possible through a filet sock so water goes right back in the tank. I also bought some nitrate additive as I noticed this and phosphate were very low. I believe this fueled my good bacteria and they finally out competed the dyno. Good luck,but u can beat it. I also used reefbrite rock enhance and micro bacter 7 on opposite days for a couple weeks.

 

[DDon]

So I went and got myself a microscope (I think deep down I've been looking for a good excuse to buy one since high school), and yes, it's dino. Specifically Dinoflagellate Prorocentrum. See pics below.

I've read and watched a ton over the last few days. It's unfortunate but there definitely doesn't seem to be a magic bullet for these, or even a sort of reliable half *** ok bullet. Taking in all the info I've decided to do the following.

1) Took my phosban reactor out of the tank (a potential source of iron for the dinos as well as perhaps turning the dinos into bacteria eating machines in the presence of ultra low phosphate levels).
2) Running charcoal alone (to remove the toxins).
3) Spot suction the dino aggressively each day through a 200 micro filter sock and return the water.
4) Add bacteria (Dr. Tim's formulas).
5) Try to increase the phosphate and Nitrate levels to approx .1 and 5 respectively through increased feeding and possibly dosing if I can't do it through the feedings.
6) Stop water changes (I also change my membranes on my RO unit so my evaporation top-off water is better quality).
7) Order a UV sterilizer (I had one long ago, but it seems to have crapped out).

I'm going to hold off on the blackout period and refrain from increasing pH or adding peroxide.

I'll post progress along the way.

Wish me luck!!

-J

Dinos are smaller than 200 micron and will easily pass through the filter socks. When I was dealing with them, I ordered some 5 micron filter socks for manual removal.

UV can be effective with prorocentrum though they need some "encouragement" to get in the water column. Using a power head to blast the rocks at lights out can help. A couple days of lights out, just to keep them in the water column for the UV also can help.

Good luck.

 

[JayinToronto]

Dinos are smaller than 200 micron and will easily pass through the filter socks. When I was dealing with them, I ordered some 5 micron filter socks for manual removal.

UV can be effective with prorocentrum though they need some "encouragement" to get in the water column. Using a power head to blast the rocks at lights out can help. A couple days of lights out, just to keep them in the water column for the UV also can help.

Good luck.

Thanks DDon, I've definitely noticed the uselessness of the 200 micro socks. I've read that the dinos are between 10 and 20 microns so I've ordered some 5 micron socks like you suggested. Also the only UV sterilizer I could get at my LFS was the turbo twist 12x. I don't think it's powerful enough to link in to my return pump (i run at approx 1200 gph). So what I've been doing it suctioning as much as I can off the rocks during the day and then returning the water back through the turbo twist at a slow rate (approx 150 gph) with the hope of killing all the dinos on their way back into the tank. However, I have sampled this water and there were still live dinos present.

I've spent the last couple days researching UV sterilizers and I think I'm going to go with AquaUV. They have good reviews and I can get it through a Canadian on-line distributor. I'm just trying to decide on size. I don't need it to kill protozoa so from the info that's available I believe I need one powered to 30,000 µw/cm2 at 3-4x tank turn over per hour, so 30 000 at 1600gph to be safe. From their website the classic 40 watt fills those numbers. However I don't want to spend all this money and not have enough power so I think I'm going to go with the classic 57 watt at least. Also I'm going to get a DC return pump to optimize this flow rate. Overkill? Perhaps, but given the time and effort and $ I've put in over the last 10 years I feel it's something I need to do.

Also, just and update. I've been dosing seachem nitrate and phosphorus for the last few days and things have gotten worse. I know it's going to take some time, but I sure hope it doesn't get much worse than this.....

 

[DDon]

Thanks DDon, I've definitely noticed the uselessness of the 200 micro socks. I've read that the dinos are between 10 and 20 microns so I've ordered some 5 micron socks like you suggested. Also the only UV sterilizer I could get at my LFS was the turbo twist 12x. I don't think it's powerful enough to link in to my return pump (i run at approx 1200 gph). So what I've been doing it suctioning as much as I can off the rocks during the day and then returning the water back through the turbo twist at a slow rate (approx 150 gph) with the hope of killing all the dinos on their way back into the tank. However, I have sampled this water and there were still live dinos present.

I've spent the last couple days researching UV sterilizers and I think I'm going to go with AquaUV. They have good reviews and I can get it through a Canadian on-line distributor. I'm just trying to decide on size. I don't need it to kill protozoa so from the info that's available I believe I need one powered to 30,000 µw/cm2 at 3-4x tank turn over per hour, so 30 000 at 1600gph to be safe. From their website the classic 40 watt fills those numbers. However I don't want to spend all this money and not have enough power so I think I'm going to go with the classic 57 watt at least. Also I'm going to get a DC return pump to optimize this flow rate. Overkill? Perhaps, but given the time and effort and $ I've put in over the last 10 years I feel it's something I need to do.

Also, just and update. I've been dosing seachem nitrate and phosphorus for the last few days and things have gotten worse. I know it's going to take some time, but I sure hope it doesn't get much worse than this.....

I went with the AquaUV as well, they are good units. As far as sizing, the 57 watt may not be enough on your size tank for dinos. I started with a 57 watt unit on my 240 then later 270 gallon tank and I was not successful. I ended up purchasing the 114 watt unit and was successful with that. This was just my personal experience, but have read similar accounts. In my case Prorocentrum was not the dominant species though, they were third after Coolia and Osreopsis.

 

[JayinToronto]

I went with the AquaUV as well, they are good units. As far as sizing, the 57 watt may not be enough on your size tank for dinos. I started with a 57 watt unit on my 240 then later 270 gallon tank and I was not successful. I ended up purchasing the 114 watt unit and was successful with that. This was just my personal experience, but have read similar accounts. In my case Prorocentrum was not the dominant species though, they were third after Coolia and Osreopsis.

Yea, I thought I might be under sizing it a bit. Fortunately I found a great deal on a Lifeguard ProMax high output 90 watt (one of my LFS just plumbed 5 into there store display and had 2 left over). Will plumb it into my system tomorrow. Still looking at DC pumps. I can get Syncra SCD 9.0 right away. Any of the other high output DC pumps I'll have to wait a few weeks to get. Not a lot of reviews out there on these.

 

[JayinToronto]

I've plumbed in my 90watt UV sterilizer. The main return pump to which this is attached is running at a flow rate of 600 gph. I also have my 36watt turbo twist running parallel with another smaller return pump with an output of 300 gph. This should turn my system over just over 2x/hour.

With my dosing seachem phosphate and nitrate I've overshot my values a bit. Nitrate is reading 10 (goal 5-10) and Phosphate is reading 1 last night (goal 0.1-0.2). I've thus taken a day off dosing and will check again tomorrow. This is really the first day that I all of my processes are in place. Will report back with results.

 

[DDon]

How are things coming along?

 

[JayinToronto]

It's been one week since I've had my UV sterilizers going and my phosphate and nitrates up. Overall things are going well. There are definitely signs that my clean up crew is starting to win! (I have a strong fleet of mexican turbo snails and a ton of hermits). There are still sheets of dinos all over the tank, but there are also now some bare areas on the rocks. However, my sand is as bad as ever.

My regular chemistry has been a bit out of whack. Suddenly my alk shot way up (dkh 13) and my magnesium is running a bit low (1275). Have been correcting slowly over the week.

My phosphates and nitrates are stable. I got one of the Hanna phosphate testers to get a more precise reading. It read .24 and .25 yesterday and today respectively. I haven't added any phosphate in 3 days but am still feeding frozen foods and nori about double what I did pre-dino.

I've kept my cheato going and continue with fresh water rinses every couple of days. Dino's really do love the cheato though and there is always a new patch on it daily.

Livestock and corals seem to be doing ok. The only major casualty I've had is my giant clam. Not surprised given all the toxins that were in the water, but very sad as I've had him for about 6 years.

Going to stay the course for now as it seems to be heading in the right direction.

 

[JayinToronto]

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[JayinToronto]

Update:
1 month since I corrected my phosphate and nitrate deficiencies and got my UV up and running properly. Overall things have greatly improved. There are only a few small patches of dinoflagellates on the rocks. The two problem areas are my chaeto bed and my sand. There hasn't been any improvment in those two areas at all. I've been rinsing my cheato in fresh water every couple days, but within 48h the dinos cover it completely. So today I decided to throw it out. It was a tough decision but I think overall it's for the best, at least right now. I am concerned about it not being there for nitrate/phosphate transport, but I will continue to monitor my nitrate and phosphate level daily and adjust dosing/feeding as necessary. My phosphate has been stable around 0.2 and my nitrate has been stable between 5 and 10 (that's as close as I can estimate using the Salifert kit). With regards to the sand, I just can't bring myself to remove it. I love how it looks and I love all the critters that live in it. Plus my Diamond Goby is one of my favourite fish and he would be very unhappy in a glass bottom aquarium. So I'm just going to ride it out for a while longer.

I've also finally stabilized my other chemistry. Alk is sitting stable at 10.5, Calcium at 480 and Mg at 1330. Was it ever a rollercoaster with those over the last month. I've finally had 7 straight days of stability.

All in all I'm very happy with the progress and will continue to update as things go along.

 

[JayinToronto]

Just wanted to give an update.

I've been Dino free for some time now. Which is such a huge win. My biggest ongoing problem is with nutrient and phosphate levels. I'm finding that without using any rowaphos as well as trying to maintain a 0.1 phosphate level that I'm constantly fighting with red slime and some other algae. Though a welcome trade to the Dino hell I was going through. I seem to yoyo between 0.1 and 0.2 on the phosphates. In my sump I can't grow chaeto as it just gets overwhelmed with slime (hair algae) so I just let that grow and use that as my sump nutrient export. I also skim a lot harder than I used to as I'm trying to optimize my skimmer for nutrient export. Outside of my plates, my sis corals aren't happy and growth of anything except some nuisance polyps seems to be a struggle with this higher nutrient situation.

but fish are all happy and thriving.

Going to send a water sample off to triton to be tested. I've heard that when recovering from a large Dino problem trace elements can be way off. I'm curious what it come back like.

-J