Clams dying......Help!!

[fishinchip999]

Hello all, This is my first post. I've found much help here reading the threads and now it's time to pose a question. I'm puzzled as my clams have died but nothing else in my tank looks the least bit stressed. Here's where I'm at, I have a 200 gallon corner tank with a 30 gallon sump. 100+ pounds of live rock and lots of inhabitants.
3 of my favorites were my clams, 1 maxima 1 crocea and 1 deresa, sadly they are no longer with me and I haven't got a clue as to why. here's some tank specifics.
Salinity 1.025
PH 8.0
ammonia 0.
nitrite 0.
nitrate 0.
phosphate 0.
carbonate hardness runs between 8 and 10 Dkh
calcium is over 500 ppm
magnesium is over 1500ppm

All test kits are API except mag which is Salifert.
My LFS suggested snails but I have not seen any as he described before or after the death of my clams. I did not feed my clams as they were a minimum size of about 3 inches (maxima) up to 5 inches (deresa). I tried to feed phyto but did not notice them inhaling in any excessive manner to try and get more food. My tank is 30 inches deep and my lighting consists of 2 250 MH at 14000K spectrum, 2 96 watt VHO T5's, 1 tropical sun (10000K) and 1 super actinic (20000K) also 2 56 watt VHO T5's, both super actinic (20000K). I also had a strip of blue LED's that were rated at 1600 lumens per foot with 16 feet of it over my tank. That was 420NM range. All bulbs are only about 3 months old.
In the last 3 weeks I've lost all 3 of my clams, the crocea has been in there for 10 months now and the others were inhabitants for about 2 and a half months. All the clams looked great with fantastic mantle extension and the rest of the tank also looked fine. Everything is growing well, I don't have any nuisance algae and my coralline algae is growing well on the back walls. Suddenly, without apparent reason, the crocea withdrew it's mantle one day. Within 2 days its shell was open but the mantle was withdrawn and the part of the mantle that covers the opening appeared to be stretched out tightly toward the shell. That was the end for him! :uhoh2: Then within the next 2 weeks the other 2 fell victim to the same fate!!
I have no idea why or where to begin to fix a problem as the water parameters look fine and all other critters are doing well.
These are the issues that may have something to do with it but I'm not sure.
1) for a few weeks now I noticed the LEDs weren't as bright as normal and just yesterday I found a bad spot that burned. I don't run a ground plug but did have my hands in the tank and wasn't shocked but I'm not grounded so don't know if there was stray voltage??
2) I have been thinning my crop of xenia and sometimes when pulled they would release the white cloud that happens. I run carbon in the sump all the time just for reasons like this.
3)I have a green BTA that is committing suicide. It moved behind the reef and I couldn't get at it to feed it. It finally bleached but is still hanging around. It has now moved to a cave where I still can't get to it to remove it. It's white and getting smaller as it won't move to the light or accept food, not even from the maroon clown that it hosts.

I think I've covered it the best I can and I need to know which way to turn as I love the clams but am not willing to watch more die! Oh yeah, the clams were in 3 different locations and aggression from other corals does not seem to be the issue.

My fish list is as follows
1 mystery wrasse
1 starry blenny
1 sleeper goby (7 barred goby)
1 mandarin goby
1 copperband butterfly (not the culprit, he's been in since the beginning)
1 kole tang
3 green chromis
2 false percula clowns
1 maroon clown
1 clarkii clown
1 bicolor anthias
1 lyretail anthias
1 sunburst anthias
1 emerald crab ( been there since the beginning too)
1 blood shrimp
2 skunk cleaner shrimp
and possibly still a sally lightfoot crab ( haven't seen her for a long time though)

I think that's it.

As far as water changes go I do a 30 gallon change every 2 weeks using RO/DI water. The only additions to the tank are calcium, reef buffer and reef plus. All from Seachem. I haven't needed calcium for a while and I'm adding the prescribed dosage of buffer to raise the PH and carbonate hardness on a 3 day schedule.

 

[moliken]

sally, but u absolutely cannot be sure just b/c asomething's been in since the beginning like the copperbanded

 

[fishinchip999]

Thanks for the reply. I don't even know if the Sally is there as I haven't seen her in months. She was doing well and molting regularly. The copperband won't even pick at the clams once they're dead! I feed pretty heavily but only once a day. I've never noticed any pyramid snails. looking at the threads I don't think they had PM either. That's why I'm at a loss as to why

 

[Autonomy]

Thanks for the reply. I don't even know if the Sally is there as I haven't seen her in months. She was doing well and molting regularly. The copperband won't even pick at the clams once they're dead! I feed pretty heavily but only once a day. I've never noticed any pyramid snails. looking at the threads I don't think they had PM either. That's why I'm at a loss as to why

Just a thought, but how often do you change your carbon? Could using the same sample of carbon for longer than the recommended time (depending on the brand) without replacing it with fresh carbon have anything to do with it? Keeping in mind that carbons, will re-release toxins and other impurities which it initially absorbed back into the water once its absorption capacity has depleted.

 

[wii64brawl]

Did you check for pyramidellid snails on the bases of the clams? Clams can go from perfectly healthy to dead in a day if they're infected.

 

[fishinchip999]

Just a thought, but how often do you change your carbon? Could using the same sample of carbon for longer than the recommended time (depending on the brand) without replacing it with fresh carbon have anything to do with it? Keeping in mind that carbons, will re-release toxins and other impurities which it initially absorbed back into the water once its absorption capacity has depleted.

The carbon is replaced at 6 week intervals. I have a 1 1/2 pound bag in the sump in direct current flow.

 

[fishinchip999]

Did you check for pyramidellid snails on the bases of the clams? Clams can go from perfectly healthy to dead in a day if they're infected.

I have never seen any, even at the point when the clams withdrew their mantle and the flesh across the shell opening became stretched tight. You could see all the way into the clam and nothing. I'm told starvation but understand that clams of this size should live with just the lighting I have. the only new addition before this happened was the hawkfish. He left them alone also

 

[Autonomy]

Perhaps your calcium and magnesium levels are a touch too high for your clams. Although clams are calcium and Mg lovers I tend to keep my calcium between 430 and 450 and my Mg at between 1340 to 1350ppm at around a 10dKH and that's enough to keep my clams happy. I don't tend to fiddle around with my clams with things like direct feeding. I pretty much just leave them alone. My clams seem to thrive on neglect and are happy when just left alone. I do feed my other corals with marine planktons and mysis shrimp and I'm sure that my clams would be getting their fair share seeing that they too are filter feeders. Carbonate hardness, calcium and magnesium as your obviously well aware of, complement each other in the formation of coral skeleton and when they aren't available in the correct ratios one of them will quickly become the limiting factor of healthy coral growth and survival. Here's hoping we all can help you find out what may have happened. Sorry to hear about your loss, clams are beautiful majestic creatures.

Red Sea suggests the following for the aquarium type keeping SPS, Frags & Clams (accelerated growth):-Salinity at 35ppt, dKH at 12/6, Ca at 465 and Mg at 1390. Here's the link to their site:
http://www.redseafish.com/uploadimages/Products brochures/RCP Brochure/99251 RCP Brochure Eng 4W.pdf

 

[fishinchip999]

Wow, Auto, thank you very much. I didn't realize that my levels could actually be to high and that cause a problem. How would I go about lowering my calcium and mag levels though? I'm pretty sure that the buffer I'm using has mag in it. Other than what I've stated that I add, nothing else, to my knowledge, has mag in it other than my salt my (kent marine reef mix).

 

[Autonomy]

Knowing how your calcium levels where within that range in the first place always comes in handy. Were you originally supplementing your aquarium with calcium? I’m not sure of the ca level in your Kent Sea Reef Mix but the amount of calcium in brands can vary greatly.
From experience, I would say that out of the three most important parameters its best to attain and maintain the correct alk level first. Unfortunately, I found that nothing much could be done about lowering my ca or mg but it was my alk level in which I had to be very careful in adjusting. It’s best to just allow your ca and mg levels to deplete on their own. They will eventually lower and it will take time, but I can’t tell you how long. Calcium level depletion would depend on what calcium loving corals and other invertebrates you have in your tank. Water changes would be your best bet. I would stick to my usual water changing routine rather than do something out of the ordinary or what would be considered drastic for my own tank, just because I wanted to get my ca and mg levels down. Just stick to the routine you and your tank are use to. Gradually and eventually, your levels will lower on their own.

Although you had your crocea for approx 10mths, it may have slowly been adjusting to the gradual increase in ca levels whereas your your maxima and deresa weren’t able to tolerate the high ca levels within such a short amount of time. Without being disrespectful to you and your loss fishinchip999, its just like the premise of throwing a frog into boiling water and it will jump out, but increase the heat slowly and it will get accustomed to it and eventually cook. I don’t know how long you’ve had your BTA but it seems to be reaching its level of ca tolerance as well. Eventually, your levels will lower on their own. Just like J. Sprung and J.C. Delbeek would say “only bad things happen quickly in the reef tank, good things take time....”

 

[CReyes350]

Clams are difficult to pick and somewhat temperamental during the acclimation process which could have explained a sudden death soon after introduction to your system. However, it is stated that the clams lived together for at least two months before deteriorating which means to me that your parameters MAY be to blame (IF nothing else was introduced to the system that was detrimental only to clams). I personally keep my calcium at 500 and mag around 1365 just by doing water changes (Coralife salt) with the hope that my three clams will suck up the calcium. My clams have been happy for about a year so far.

If I was in your situation I would try to lower the mag, keep the calcium at max 500 in the system and let a few months go by so that if there was something in the tank attacking clams- it would probably starve. After that, I would try again with a healthy clam you have been keeping tabs on at your LFS.

 

[fishinchip999]

Thank you For all the great info guys! I am waiting on getting any new clams and will watch my parameters for them to fall. Once the ca and mg are in tolerance and I can maintain them in tolerance I will think about a new clam.

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

HOW old are your lights?

 

[Ted_C]

HOW old are your lights?

And - How long has your tank been up and running?

 

[Dapg8gt]

Why are you using buffer?

 

[fishinchip999]

I replaced all my bulbs in august as they were, at that time, past a year old. The tank was a year old on Thanksgiving. I use buffer because my alkalinity and PH usually run on the low side. PH tends to stay at 8.0 but I have had a reading as low as 7.8. the alkalinity stays within range as long as I buffer it.

 

[Autonomy]

Any news on you BTA? Just a little food for thought: So far, if I were in your position, I see two options but both obviously involve their own set of risks. Option one could be just to leave the BTA in your main tank, carry out the water changes and hope it holds on while the ca and mg slowly decrease. Or, the second option in an attempt to save it would be to transfer your BTA to its own temporary tank while the ca and mg lower. Definitely not the easiest of decisions to make and both options obviously have their own risks involved.
You've stated that all your other livestock is and has been doing well, for this reason I would keep at my usual water maintenance and allow the ca and mg levels to lower naturally. I've found that keeping my mg and ca levels within the range I personally do allows for a slight variance in increase should it happen to increase (for whatever reason) without my awareness.
When juggling alk, ca & mag I try and concentrate on my mg first. Providing that my SG is within range, I'm then able to get my ca and alk in balance quite easily. Interestingly enough, the general instructions for testing and supplementing the Red Sea Reef Care program states:
"œPage 6, point 6 of the Reef Foundation Manual:-
6). In order to prevent the effects of unbalance levels of the foundation elements, the supplements should be added in the following order allowing 10 minutes between each:
1st "“ Magnesium
2nd "“ Alkalinity
3rd "“ Calcium"
You could try switching to a lower ca and mg salt mix than your Kent Sea Reef Mix for water changes for the time being. Eventually, your ca and mg levels will lower, and until then it would probably be best to monitor your mg levels as they decline naturally and once all the parameters are where you would like them to be, and you're ready, you could go ahead and give another beautiful clam a lovely home.

 

[fishinchip999]

Auto, I've been looking at everything I do and have changed things a bit that is helping out. I'm still continuing to do my water changes as normal but have discontinued using the the seachem reef buffer and reef advantage calcium for now. After my clam loses I've been asking many questions and doing a lot of research. The seachem product both contain mg!! I was doing water changes and when needed used the buffer and calcium and, unknowingly, raised my mg to dangerous levels!. I've switched to seachems kalkwasser and use this for top off water only. Alkalinity is now 10 dkh, ph is slowly coming up and is now 8.1 or 8.2, depends on how you look at the color chart and my calcium is down to 460. I used my salifert mg test and did some calcutions and best I can tell the mag is about 1800! No new corals or clams yet but getting even better growth and color from the corals I have now. (lps and softies). I've slowly raised the SG to 1.026 as well. I think with all the help that I'm on the right track. The BTA is still kickin but its still bleached. It wont move out from the cave it's in but does receive indirect light now. It hosts a maroon clown. I'm just keeping my eyes on it.

 

[Autonomy]

Just curious to know why you've decided to raise your SG to 1.026?

 

[MondoBongo]

Just curious to know why you've decided to raise your SG to 1.026?

this is what i run mine at. seems to be a good level for most reefs.

works out to about 3.5% concentration.

when i was at Mote Marine this past summer i was fortunate enough to get to speak with one of their aquariasts (got caught peeking at the lighting on one of their reef tanks. oops! but they were amazingly nice about it) and he mentioned they keep their reefs at 1.026. what he referred to as "full strength."

here is a pretty cool image i found showing some rough salinity variations:

most of the indo-pacific reefs seem to be about +/- < 1% of 3.5%

a lot of the resources i have seen usually say between 3 - 4%. so 3.5% is splitting the difference.