corals all die every time

[mythicalman22]

So Ive had a reef tank setup for over 15 years, not so much a reef tank because I can never keep coral alive, any corals, not even softies. Anenomes are about the only thing that live. Ive tried about 10 zoas, all open when bought and then after acclimation they all close and lose size color and eventually die. I had luck with mushrooms in the past but lately they wont even grow, same symptoms, they begin to shrink and lose color. Its really breaking my heart. I do not want to keep buying coral and killing it. When I first started my tank I had success with softies and back then I only had ho cf. My lighting it now 2 x 175 mh 12000k and a 50/50 108 watt led. I have a 42 gallon hex tank with a ten gallon sump. I also keep a cf on my sump in actinic. My water conditions are a little off as of right now because I recently had a huge hair algae issue, I used peroxide to kill it off but it is growing back now that I have stopped dosing it. My question is why does everything I put in there die? Could it be the quality of my mh bulbs? they are only a month old but are just cheap bulbs. If it is the cheap bulbs that would be great, I would just buy better ones. I just don't see how there can be a huge difference. I have adequate flow in tank with 2 powerheads and my return pump is 750gph. Whats weird is that my nitrites are super high, this tank is only about 3 years old but all my substrate and live rock is over ten years old. Nitrates were also high. calcium was also crazy high. phosphates non existent. I have two tomato clowns and a lawnmower blenny, 30 blue leg hermits, 30 snails all healthy, I have 4 rock anenomes, one long tentacle all doing great. all other coral for 10 plus years has died and usually quick. Had frogspawn 2 months ago and died within a week. This really bothers me because it doesn't make much sense. your help would be greatly appreciated

 

[toothybugs]

Ever have an LFS test your water? What are the parameters you've tested and what (exactly) were the results? What is your water source?

If tap, have you ever run a polyfilter to test and remove metals?

2x175W MH bulbs with a bright LED is a lot of light for a 42 hex. I can attest from personal experience too much light can hinder growth as well as too little.

 

[PhaneSoul]

Sounds like you have nutrient issues hinted by the continual algae problems.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

You said your nitrites are high, if so this is your problem and need to find out why they aren't converting to nitrates. Do you test any ammonia?

 

[ghatter]

My lighting it now 2 x 175 mh 12000k and a 50/50 108 watt led. I have a 42 gallon hex tank with a ten gallon sump.

While I agree with the nitrate concerns, are you doing any sort of lighting acclimation when you put the corals in the tank? That seems like a lot of light for a 42g tank. You might want to try cutting down on the lights and then slowly increasing them back to give the coral time to adjust?

EDIT: Just noticed the "nitrites" part... that's definitely not good and should be the first thing you figure out.

 

[mythicalman22]

ammonia was extremely high as well at 8 ppm. Ph at 8.2, nitrite 5 ppm, nitrate 10ppm, phosphate 0ppm, calcium is unbelievable but it says on 4 tests 1200, kh is 143.2. yes I have done lighting acclimation by lowering my active time on my mh to 4 hrs and my led is on 6 actinic 4 daylight. I work it up over a week or so adding half an hour each day. The aldae problem is actually quite new, about 2 months ago I bought live rock off of a guy I know which had no signs of algae besides coralline but after about 2 weeks in my tank the algae exploded and took over everything, then cyano hit and killed off a lot of my hermits and snails, then I had a mated pair of clowns die tragically, they were building there nest under live rock when the live rock must have fallen on them. they were dead by the time I found them. I got rid of the cyano, 99 percent of the green algae and stopped dosing. I dosed for about 2 weeks. the peroxide worked great but it killed off my red dragon macro and all coralline as well unfortunately. Its been about a week since then and I added a gsp and it hasn't opened since its been in here, I also added the new clowns, crabs and snails. I now am having brown algae growth on my rock near the top and green algae growing back where it previously was. I have never had green algae for 10 plus years and my test levels have always been within parameters until recently.

 

[crn005]

calcium is unbelievable but it says on 4 tests 1200, kh is 143.2

?!!



How do you even get levels that high?!! I'm not saying that's the only problem that needs to be fixed, but holy crap, that's definitely a factor! Also, if your CF lights were working before, then why did you change them? If I had to guess on another potential issue, I would say that you have way too much lighting. One halide would be enough to light your tank, even for SPS. At the end of the day, more is not always better when it comes to softies and lighting. I'd put those CF back over the tank if you just want to keep softies and LPS.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Everything in your tank will die until you get the ammonia and nitrites under control.They can deal with the nitrates.

What has died in your tank? It would take something like this or a serious overfeeding to create that high of ammonia or nitrites and not have your bacteria not handle it with a tank this age IMO

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Oh and forget the algae, lighting acclamation etc and setup a hospital tank. You can keep the parameters with water changes. You need to get everything out of that tank NOW> The ammonia will burn the gills of your fish rather quickly. I'm afraid you are going to lose everything in your system.

 

[crn005]

How do you look at that high of alkalinity and say the problem is ammonia and nitrites?! He said he had some success before and I would imagine his alkalinity was much more in check then. If his alk and calcium recently started getting that high, then I'm sure there was a huge dying off in his tank. That would explain his ammonia and nitrite problem. It probably isn't due to overfeeding. However, I don't see his ammonia and nitrites being the cause, but rather the consequence. Anyway, I do agree with you that water changes and time are the best course of action. You have to get the alk and calcium down before you can move forward.

 

[mythicalman22]

yes I know 1200 for calcium is insane, I just recently started adding reef foundation abc+ by red sea and kent essential elements within the last few weeks as well. This may have spiked a few things. I changed my cf for mh because I was going for an sps tank back then, the mh hasn't worked well for me so I thought Id try LED. No change so then I tried both thinking maybe there was just not enough light. I am treating the ammonia by dosing cloram-x . Just started today after finding the extremely high levels. I test weekly and like I said until about a month ago I never had any high levels. I use a phoban reactor and a reef octopus skimmer. I also added a media area where I have bio balls and carbon I am getting a uv sterilizer next week. I have around 90 lbs of live rock between the dt and sump. Sump rock is clean. Dt rock is getting algae back. But I have always had issues with coral even with good test levels. I really don't understand why I cant achieve success with them. Im baffled. I only feed fish sparingly once a day and fish have always been healthy.

 

[crn005]

What test kits are you using for your Ca and Alk? I didn't even know that most would go that high.

 

[mythicalman22]

I always thought 140 ppm kh was a good number maybe even low. As far as I have known a good level was between 140 and 220 ppm kh

 

[emoore]

How do you look at that high of alkalinity and say the problem is ammonia and nitrites?! He said he had some success before and I would imagine his alkalinity was much more in check then. If his alk and calcium recently started getting that high, then I'm sure there was a huge dying off in his tank. That would explain his ammonia and nitrite problem. It probably isn't due to overfeeding. However, I don't see his ammonia and nitrites being the cause, but rather the consequence. Anyway, I do agree with you that water changes and time are the best course of action. You have to get the alk and calcium down before you can move forward.

We don't know what units the alk is in. If that's ppm then that's fine for alk. I wouldn't trust the calcium numbers as I don't think it can get that high without precipitation. I would agree that everything is going to die with ammonia that high. Need to get that down.

 

[Sk8r]

What brand test?
With Salifert tests, mine are 8.3 DKH; 420 calcium; 1350 mg. The numbers you are giving just are not understandable by my charts.

 

[mythicalman22]

salifert and api. And in part they don't the calcium goes much lower but its a common multiplier after 520.

 

[karimwassef]

What are you using to filter? Live rocks? Bioballs? Filter media?

Having high ammonia and nitrites says you don't have the right bacteria growing to filter your water. You need a basic biological filter that works.

 

[anbosu]

I don't see how your parameters could be that far off and you have anemones surviving.

How old are your test kits?

 

[mythicalman22]

I am using a reef octopus, phosban reactor, bio balls, carbon, a lot of live rock, I have a 4 inch aragonite, crushed coral, carribean sand bed.

 

[mythicalman22]

I just bought these test kits because I didn't believe my first run of tests. I have never heard of anyone having that high of a calcium reading in my life so I tested it four times, one api old, one salifert old, one api new, one salifert new. My anenomes have been with me for years and have had little effect to this surprisingly. They have been a little less out as of lately but I chocked that up to the new clowns molesting them.