Could hydrolyzed gelatin,collagen be used as a amino acid source.

Onewingdove

New member
As the topic states, could this be used? I've heard there are amino acids in this protein and that some protiens, if not all, act as surfactants. As the amino acid may be bound to the protein, would all of it be removed by the protein skimmer?

Should I consider one of the commercially available supplements for the reef hobby? The reason I ask is I cant find any details on "reef amino acids", their types,sources or concentrations. It would seem to me we hobbyists could come up with a home brew for this, as we seem to for just about every thing else.

Just my two cents.
 
Proteins are chains of amino acids linked together. Some may well be skimmed out more effectively than individual amino acids, and there is no reason to assume that the balance of particular amino acids in gelatin reflect what might be useful in a tank. IMO, if any amino acids are useful, they are a select few such as aspartic acid which there is evidence is important to corals and is of limited supply in coral diets.

IMO, most other amino acids will just be bacterial food that may end up as nitrate.

I discuss amino acids here:

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 2: What Chemicals Must be Supplemented
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

from it:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php#15

Supplementing Amino Acids



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The deposition of calcium carbonate into intricately structured skeletons is one of the wonders of corals that aquarists marvel at. At the molecular level, corals often guide the precipitation of calcium carbonate with organic materials, encouraging precipitation on some parts of the skeleton or inhibiting it elsewhere. Often these organic materials are proteins that contain negatively charged amino acids, such as aspartic acid. These negatively charged amino acids may interact strongly with positively charged calcium as it is deposited, allowing the proteins to guide the precipitation.

It turns out that some corals cannot make enough aspartic acid to meet their demand, and must get it from foods or from the water. Depending on the species of coral involved and the foods provided to the aquarium, the supplied foods may not be an appropriate source of aspartic acid for corals, and supplemental aspartic acid has the potential to be useful. It might be taken up directly or be taken up by other organisms that are, in turn, consumed by the coral (e.g., bacteria).

I do not presently add any amino acids to my aquarium, but some aquarists do. Those who do sometimes report improvements in the appearance of their corals. I do not know if this is a true cause and effect, or a coincidence, but aquarists might consider dosing certain amino acids. A number of commercial amino acid supplements are available to hobbyists, and some might also be obtained in suitable form from a health food store (beware of phosphate as one of the other ingredients in human supplements).

I don’t have a recommended dose. If you choose to experiment, start with a low dose, say, 1/8 teaspoon (0.5 gram) of solid amino acid or the equivalent amount of a solution, to a 100-gallon aquarium once a week. Then, slowly ramp up the dose, looking for positive or negative effects.

Note, however, that not all amino acids are beneficial. Many may just drive bacterial growth, and all contain nitrogen, so they may contribute to the nitrogenous waste that ends up as nitrate in many aquaria.

Additional discussion of the effects of amino acids and other organics on calcification by corals appears in this article:

The Chemical & Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification in Corals
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm
 
Re: Could hydrolyzed gelatin,collagen be used as a amino acid source.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12982094#post12982094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Onewingdove
It would seem to me we hobbyists could come up with a home brew for this, as we seem to for just about every thing else.

IME, It's not worth the effort. Purity, solubility, and cost are all issues. Particularly, when for $8 you can get a bottle from a reputable company.

If you work in a lab and have access to LB Media it may be a cheap bac supplement, but I wouldn't expect much more than a feeding response from corals.

HTH.
 
I'm not convinced that DFAAs are doing anything more than acting as just another nutrient source. We know that corals do take up some DFAAs. What we don't know is that they're being used as amino acids. Given the normally low concentration of amino acids in reef water it wouldn't make much sense to bank on them to meet needs for important processes. Certainly the machinery to oxidize amino acids is already there though and corals and zoox would both benefit from doing so.

In that case though, they're no better than simply feeding the corals and we know for a fact that feeding is an excellent way of getting AAs.
 
Hiho,

well, the answer is most probably NO. The reason of that is, apart from the above listed, that Collagen is usually Collagen Type I, and that consists of more or less only 3 Aminoacids: Glycine-Proline-Hydroxyproline. These are repeated hundreds of times, so even if your corals would be able to use it, theres the other AAs missing.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies.

As always, I come away with more knowledge every time I visit RC.

I had been following various threads on this forum and others, the gist of the topics being LNS and there techniques and potential results of color and growth.

Most everything we use in the hobby except these tanks were originally designed for something else and, being on the cheap, I looked into amino acids as a whole. I was unaware that there were some supplements that were so affordable.

I never did see any direct reference to the addition of amino acids being a key factor. Thank you Randy for the Links to your articles.

It would seem, as always, when you sweep away the dust, it's patience and husbandry skills. Getting back in the hobby after being away for some time, I sometimes look to see where the "edge" is. I'm thankful for the improvement in lighting, pumps and skimmers. I have a small tank now, a Solana with many SPS
and the growth rate always amazes me.
 
I can't add much more to what Randy and Mike said. This whole craze of dosing amino acids to corals over the last couple of years is 10% applicability, 30% ignorance, and 60% bandwagon, IMHO.
 
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