Custom Sump Build

chriscobb

New member
Currently in the planning stages of building a sump for my new setup......I want to have enough space within the sump to accomodate just about any size skimmer, want a large fuge area, as well as a nicely size return area to compensate for evaporation......So far the only thing I'm certain on is the overall size which will be 48"Lx36"Wx18"H. Looking for ideas as to the layouts of the areas inside the sump and good flow through the sump and baffle heights as well.....All help an ideas are greatly appreciated........
 

chriscobb

New member
Thanks.....I view the site quite a bit, but alot can't be told from the pics how alot is tied together....I was actually looking at the sump he built for his own tank.......just pics are hard to get a very detailed idea IMO.
 

uncleof6

New member
Here is a good basic design. This is somewhat narrower than what you describe. Skimmer section on left, "fuge" on right, return in center. It is by no means the final word on sump design. And modifications can be made to accommodate an external pump more easily. When setting the baffle heights, drain down from overflows, plumbing etc. needs to be taken into account. A place to start is run ~half full. (and so the IMAS police don't come in here and start shouting bad info, that means around, average, sometimes higher and sometimes lower depending on drain down.)
sump3.jpg
You can find a wealth of sump information here:



Melev's Reef
EDIT: Ok, so you already familiar with his site....:)
HTH,

Jim:)
 

chriscobb

New member
Thanks for the sketchup uncleof6.......I should have mentioned in the original post that the new tank is 60"x42"x30" 327 gallons.....The return pump will be a the a Sequence Dart and looking at the Octopus Extreme 350, Octopus recirc skimmer 12" diameter, and option 3 Reeflo skimmer.

I've gone back and looked at melevs' site on the one sump he built with the frag/growout section....I love his work, but I'm curious as to if I were to incorporate these feature what drawback would it be if you were to encounter and issue if during isolation that you would encounter redbugs or such?????
 

kgross

Premium Member
Chris.

I will say you should do your sump something like this. Have the first section about 14 inches long, with a baffle that goes up 14 inches. this will be your skimmer section. Then after that comes your fuge. You can leave the rest of the sump open for a nice large fuge, an dthe algae in the fuge will act as a bubble trap for your skimmer and drain. Then about 4 inches from the other end of the sump, put in a short solid baffle, about 3 inches tall, then use egg crate to go up to the top of the sump. The small section is your return section, and have it just large enough to get to your strainer to keep it clean. The large section is the fuge. the short solid baffle allows you to put sand/rubble if you want into the bottom of the fuge, with chaeto in the rest. It will work very well, allow you a large fuge, stop bubbles and give you the max space for drain back and evap without it causing bubbles with that large of a return pump.


Putting a frag setup in your sump does not really cause any problems when treating, since you treat the whole system, you would not try to isolate the sump from the system.

Kim
 

chriscobb

New member
Kgross why do you consider that such a large return pump??? It's not like it's going on a 180 or smaller??? This pump seems to be a rather common return pump......I don't plan to use the pump just for the tank itself.....will be a manifold built to supply other reactors as well.......
On sump setup I'm following what your saying...so your suggesting going 14" long front to back or side to side? Do you think the 14" will accomodate my skimmer choices? The reeflow, but my thinking would definitely be tight on the recirc skimmer.....Are you also suggesting that the drain lines from the tank dump into that first 14" area as well? I'm planning to use BeanAnimals overflow design....and will have at least 2 drains from the tank.....would you suggest running 1 of the drain lines to the fuge area??? Thanks
 

THE ROOK

New member
uncleof6's sketch is a much better design, IMO. Having a 14" deep skimmer section as Kgross mentioned will just require you to place your skimmer on a 6" stand to work properly. Second, you'll have no flow control of the fuge.

Mine is also 48" long & setup just like the sketch above. I am very happy with it.
 

chriscobb

New member
What pump are u running? I'm going to use the Dart from a previous setup and again a big key is to eliminate microbubbles from the return area......spacing of baffles is important in past experience.....again the dart is being utilized for flow through the tank.....it will power other reactors......Did you dump all your tank drain into the first compartment or split it between the first chamber and the fuge section? I've heard negative about draining water straight from the tank to the fuge due to possible large particulates accumulating and settling in that area.
 

THE ROOK

New member
I'm using an in-sump pump. As for the drain, mine is split with a ball valve on the fuge side. I put about 75% of the flow to the skimmer & the other 25% to the fuge. Large particles will settle either next to the skimmer or in the fuge. There's just no way around that. Heck some even settle in the bottom of the skimmer itself. Just a matter of cleaning the sump every few weeks/months depending on your system.

I really like that each section has a different water level based on it's needs. Remember to keep the return section large enough so that your ato is not constantly running.

There are many designs and options, but I don't think there is a perfect blueprint for everyone. It's all about setting it up to work with all the pumps, heaters, skimmer, probes, filter socks, skimmer, ect. It really depends on what toys you intend to put in the sump.
 

chriscobb

New member
Yea...i know what you mean......through previous tanks and swapping of equipment you seem to run tight on space.......My heater is (has) always been an issue because of size and making it fit. I want to keep the skimmer section on the rather comfortable side, because I'm pretty much settled on the Octopus skimmer, but can't decide on the 350 or the recirc. skimmer. I have opted to give up my MRC dual beckett on the new setup, want to try to conserve alittle electricity.
I'm planning to employ the use of filter socks on the sump setup and have in the past. I'm wondering and I've seen it on a sump setup I've seen that they make a dedicated area just for the filter sock (intake) area of the sump and basically block it off like an internal overflow box inside a tank. I was thinking of using that option and then feeding the skimmer section from there. I agree on the issue with particles settling out and is a maintenance issue regardless. I'm going to try to sketch something up on sketch up and get it up and posted for a critique here shortly....
 

kgross

Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755870#post14755870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
Kgross why do you consider that such a large return pump??? It's not like it's going on a 180 or smaller??? This pump seems to be a rather common return pump......I don't plan to use the pump just for the tank itself.....will be a manifold built to supply other reactors as well.......
On sump setup I'm following what your saying...so your suggesting going 14" long front to back or side to side? Do you think the 14" will accomodate my skimmer choices? The reeflow, but my thinking would definitely be tight on the recirc skimmer.....Are you also suggesting that the drain lines from the tank dump into that first 14" area as well? I'm planning to use BeanAnimals overflow design....and will have at least 2 drains from the tank.....would you suggest running 1 of the drain lines to the fuge area??? Thanks

I will say that the best flow rate to have through your sump is equal to the flow rate through your skimmer. Any more and your skimmer/overflow combination is not do the best that it can.

A dart is not a great return pump, to much flow, and it looses to much head to get that flow. They are great pumps. I think they are one of the best pumps for a closed loop system.

The skimmers you had listed should fit into a 14" by how ever wide of a sump you end up with (the 36" you listed would be great)

I would do all the drains into the skimmer section.

Kim
 

kgross

Premium Member
On the extra height for the skimmer section. If you make your sump 18 inches tall like you said, why not use as much of that space as you can for water volume/refuge volume. The OP said he wanted a large fuge. If you go with my plan you have as large of a fuge as possible with that sump setup. If you move the fuge to the other end, first you have to deal with getting the water to the pump, plus you will have a much small fuge, since you will not be able to share water volume between the fuge and return section.

Kim
 

uncleof6

New member
Chris,

Many of use darts as return pumps. On tanks smaller than 180 also. They are great return pumps. Bean himself is using a dart return pump on his tank, and IIRC his tank is either a 75 or a 90. I use darts because they are reliable, and cost efficient. If your "over pumping" a smaller tank, they can be dialed back, and run using less electricity. In the end, run the pump you want to run. I do not run closed loop systems (as they are needless complication.) there are simpler ways to provide circulation. From experience, it is better to have a bit more pump than you need, than not enough--if you need it.

Regards,

Jim
 

chriscobb

New member
Thanks Jim...I was aware that the Sequence pumps can be dialed back with no ill effects and does "downspin" persay and use less electricity. I'm just curious as to why some consider it "overkill". I still haven't seen any real example of waste??? With multiple returns to the tank and just runs of plumbing per instance would necesitate a bigger pump to begin with. I am a fan and always have been of having alittle more than what you actually need not knowing what you might add to the system....
 

uncleof6

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14757580#post14757580 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
Thanks Jim...I was aware that the Sequence pumps can be dialed back with no ill effects and does "downspin" persay and use less electricity. I'm just curious as to why some consider it "overkill". I still haven't seen any real example of waste??? With multiple returns to the tank and just runs of plumbing per instance would necesitate a bigger pump to begin with. I am a fan and always have been of having alittle more than what you actually need not knowing what you might add to the system....

My over pumping came from an experience, years ago, with dissolved oxygen level. I had to change out a pump, to a higher flow. I don't have to do that anymore, as I have learned a great deal since then. But the big pump thing stuck. And no, I have not seen any waste either. I have more options and flexibility with the higher flow. And head loss is higher in the plumbing than the models suggest. I guess some just believe in minimal pumps, and some believe in over pumping.

Regards,

Jim
 

coralfragger101

Gone Postal
I'm another one that votes for the Reeflos as being excellant return pumps.

I also do not believe that running more flow through your sump than your skimmer can handle as being a "bad" thing either.

If you skimmer doesn't pick up the water the first time around, it will the second - or third - or fourth........

Point being - the tank's water WILL get skimmed. So what if it isn't on every pass through the sump?

The only arguement I can possibly imagine would be that if the skimmer doesn't pick things up the first time around that it may settle out somewhere else in your sump. Well - that's what filter socks are for. Anything that makes it through my filter sock and doesn't make it into my skimmer the first time around will be small enough to stay suspended in the water column and not settle out somewhere else.
 

kgross

Premium Member
If you really want that big of a pump, why don't you at least get one that can handle the head pressure like the blackfin 2500. A much much better return pump, it can handle the head pressure much much better.
 
Top