Dead Caulerpa

Johnnyfishkiller

New member
Several months ago I had a fuge full of caulerpa. I had to harvest a couple of times to keep it from getting too thick. Then I had the bright idea that since it wasn't broke, I'd fix it. I removed the 15 watt NO light fixture and installed 2 LOA 65 watt fixtures. More light = more growth = faster nutrient export. Or so I thought. All my macros died. So I bought more. They took off like wildfire, then all died.

I currently have an empty fuge with the 15 watter back on. The only macro I have is one small sprig of caulerpa in the main tank that will not grow either.

Since I cannot grow caulerpa in the fuge or the main tank, I think something is missing from the water that they need. The only thing I can think of is Nitrates. I always figured nitrates were low, but my old test kit only showed that my tank was lower than it's lowest mark. I got a Salifert kit and test results are in. My tank has .5 ppm Nitrate. Good news I think.

Is it possible to lose a macro crop due to lack of nitrates? What else should I look at?
 
Nitrates, Phosphates, Potassium, and Iron are the biggies. Strong enough growth can rapidly strip the water of these.
 
N and P are the two main reasonable/plausible nutrients to test for. K+ test kits are rarely made, two companies make them and they are too broad ranged to be much use. K+ can be dosed without worry of nusiance algae blooms using K2SO4. I will not get into the issues surrounding Fe test kits for bioavailability here. It's too much and too long often.

NO3 test kits are notoriusly inaccurate when measured up against standards in the the range many SW/FW folks with plants/macrophytes need. Generally 0-10ppm is a good working range but I've only found the Lamott or Hach test kits to give me and many other aquarist obsessed with testing plant/algae uptake rate with *reliable results worth interpting.

If you have the option, measure the NO3 uptake without a Refugium/Caulerpa etc over the course of a week.
Don't feed and then do a week with feeding fish/critters.

Then add the refugium and wait till it's fairly well established and repeat.
Some NO3 will be lost to the DBS etc, but the rest can be assumed as macro algae uptake. It's important to have a healthy growth rate established to compare a healthy stand agaist the rates of nutrient uptake.
A so so stand of macro's is not your goal nor what you want to grow.

NO3 is the largest % of biomass and the test is fairly straight forward with less issues of beyond the range of test limitations vs say PO4 limitation with macro's and other algae. You can see uptake by a good biomass of PO4.

But the NO3 is 10X-15X the amount per day.
A reasonable resolution for a Lamott test kit is 1, maybe 2ppm.
You'd have to go to a spectrophotometer to do much better. But you can measure 1-2ppm uptake rates over a day due to refugiums. 0.1-0.2ppmppm of so of PO4.

You assumed correctly that you ran out of nutrients and the Caulerpa stunted and died back. Adding small amounts of NO3/PO4 can help or switching the lighting to a more moderate intensity would help. Increased feeding may also be a simpler solution but I don't think that alone will help in this case due to the very large jump in lighting intensity. But this can be over done/has limits also and you'll get traces of NH3/NH4+ which can cause blooms of nusiance algae. Back to the issue of balance for the boiload.

It's a bit like driving a car, the faster you go, the more fuel you burn(Nutrients) and the more likely the chance of a crash will be more painful.

More light is not always better, _balance_ is what folks should perhaps seek, not bigger and more powerful.

But at higher light intensities you will see the uptake rates appear faster and change faster over time. Just don't run the plants/macro's too low and crash the tank.
I use KNO3 and KH2PO4. I do large water changes every two weeks as the tank is small but the other nutrients can be dosed if you do the water changes in smaller amounts/less frequently but it's tougher to maintain a good range of parameters.
The KNO3 will add a fair amount of both K+ and NO3 and the KH2PO4 adds the PO4. If you want to add namely K+, K2SO4 works well. These three will give complete control over the dosing of NPK.
These run a 3-6$ lb from www.litemanu.com for perhaps a lifetime's supply.

I added up to 10-12ppm KNO3 per week to my tank but I have started feeding more and using about 1/3 of the KNO3 as it it provides strong growth without melting the Caulerpas from the exceed end of the range.

Too much or too little will cause issues.
0.0ppm of NO3/PO4 is not good for macro's.

I have not done enough with the Traces(iron is my proxy for the traces)+PO4+ NO3 all at the same time of different methods of dosing it.

I'm slowly getting there though. Takes time.
Right now I dose tp 87 liters of SW:
500mg of KNO3 1x a week
50mg of KH2PO4
5mls of traces

I dose each on different days and add the traces directly on to the macros slowly with a pipette(2-3minutes) without the current.
I feed the fish well.
Adding all of these at the same time and at higher dosages did not give me a good result with Caulerpas.

Hope this might help.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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serial reefer Let us know what happens with your tank

Mine or Jonneyfishkiller's or both?
I will certainly talk more about macrophyte phyisology in aquariums and have good test kits and methods to come to some useful info for both the refugiums folks and generally for good growth factors for macro's.

I have seen some other aquarist with poor macro growth go from Macros=> Cyanobacteria due in large part to the BGA/Cyano's ability to live on next to nothing but the larger macro's needing much more nutrients.
It;'s fairly common to see this. But BGA's will appear in very high nutrient levels also when the system is destabilized by the excesses.
A working range is the goal perhaps for most. Frequency as well. You can have 0.0ppm etc but if you dose small amounts every day or two/dosing pump etc, then the macro's needs are being met, but it's very difficult to measure anything since most of the nutrtients are being used up before you can test for them. NH4/NH3 is a good one for this issue.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Was that a jet that went by?

Most of that stuff went way WAY over my head. As an auto mechanic my chemistry knowledge doesn't go much past oil, antifreeze, and refrigerant.

I think what you said was that my light was too bright and it caused the caulerpa to rapidly strip the water of nutrients and then die from the lack of those nutrients. Am I close?

I did find a very small piece of caulerpa still in the corner of the fuge. I'll find out over the next few days if the lower watt light is the fix.
 
Well, I apologize for jargon. Some folks have the same problem with autorepairs:) I'm not one of them but I understand what you are saying.

But you have the basic idea. Some folks want to know all the "whys" and so on. Some are fine with just the "How" part.

I'd do a water change, add some Calcium/alkalinty etc, add that lower lighting.
You might consider another single 15~20watt light instead of replacing the 15w with 130w of PC lights. That might not push it over too far and increase the nutrient removal from your tank without melting the Refugium Caulerpa down.

I like the car analogies and they are good for explaining nutrients, light and carbon.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Plantbrain said:
Well, I apologize for jargon. Some folks have the same problem with autorepairs:) I'm not one of them but I understand what you are saying.

Thanks Tom.

I do a lot of explaining every day. Keeping it at level that is understandable yet complete is a difficult thing to do. I use a digi cam with a monitor on the front counter and drag old parts up for people to see. Kind of hard to do that on a message board.

I'll let you know how things go with the lower watt light in place.

John
 
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