Difficulty keeping calc and alk at proper levels

[krak256]

I was gonna say I have having trouble keeping it up, but i figured that would just set me up for too many jokes.

i have a sps dominated 34g solana. ive been using reef crystals for some time now, but my cal, alk, and mag are way below their stated levels. when i tested, i got cal: 400, alk: 6.1 - 6.7, and mag: 1275.

I'm dosing ESV 2 part, trying to get my cal and alk to proper levels. after i dose, i get cal around 450 and alk around 7.5 or so. the next day, levels are back down. does that sound right? can my tank be using 50ppm of cal a day? whats causing my alk swings?

i should note, i test alk and mag with salifert and cal with API. salinity is around 1.025-1.026. i have not test my water before doing water changes. perhaps i have a bad reef crystals batch?

 

[JB NY]

Don't test after you dose. Do it 24 hours later. So if you are dosing and seeing the same numbers the next day, then you are dosing the proper amount to maintain.

If you want to raise the levels, keep your dosing the same but add just something to raise alk, if that is what you are looking to do.

 

[kaserpick]

Also, if you're using a Salifert test for KH, you could be getting a faulty reading. People have had problems with Salifert KH tests in the past. Elos makes a good one I've heard. I've been using Tropic Marin's.

I agree with Joe, don't read your parameters right after you dose. Reading them the same day you dose is, of course, fine, but you might want ot wait a few hours. Then work from there. I think you'll get more consistent readings by waiting.

When you say it's SPS dominate, how many SPS are we talking about? Are they all frags or mainly colonies?

 

[RRaider]

Smaller doses more often imo to prevent the drastic swings. With a tank that small the levels tend to get used up faster than in a tank with a larger water volume. I have a 29g and I'm dosing a minimum of 6 times a day with pumps and timers. Using kalk in your topoff is another option to help keep things more consistent.

 

[krak256]

hmm, i never thought about using kalk in my topoff. i always thought that was for larger tanks.

I probably have at least 20-25 frags/mini colonies/colonies in my tank.

hmm, i wait about an hr after i dose to retest, but i guess i should wait longer. i always thought salifert made great test kits. should i try something else? how do i make sure its correct?

thanks for the responses!

 

[abrian]

I had been testing my Alk exclusively with Salifert for the past year. About a month ago I began noticing more people saying they had inconsistant results with the Salifert and ordered both Elos and Sera Alk kits to cross check my results. Both of these kits read about 2dkh lower on Alk than I was getting with the Salifert (although both of those kits have broader result ranges, so the margin of error is significant. I took the reading at the first sign of color change that didn't immediately shift back).

Since I had been trying to keep my Alk steady at 8dkh with the Salifert for a year, I am suspecting I had been running closer to an actual 6dkh level. I have used three Salifert kits over the course of the past year, and always used both new and old kit together at least once when transitioning and never got any real discrepancies to indicate a bad individual test though. So, my Salifert Alk kits have been consistant one to the next in results, but those results are about 2dkh higher on Salifert than the Elos and Sera kits I picked up to crosscheck with.

Just my experience for what it is worth.

 

[krak256]

I had been testing my Alk exclusively with Salifert for the past year. About a month ago I began noticing more people saying they had inconsistant results with the Salifert and ordered both Elos and Sera Alk kits to cross check my results. Both of these kits read about 2dkh lower on Alk than I was getting with the Salifert (although both of those kits have broader result ranges, so the margin of error is significant. I took the reading at the first sign of color change that didn't immediately shift back).

Since I had been trying to keep my Alk steady at 8dkh with the Salifert for a year, I am suspecting I had been running closer to an actual 6dkh level. I have used three Salifert kits over the course of the past year, and always used both new and old kit together at least once when transitioning and never got any real discrepancies to indicate a bad individual test though. So, my Salifert Alk kits have been consistant one to the next in results, but those results are about 2dkh higher on Salifert than the Elos and Sera kits I picked up to crosscheck with.

Just my experience for what it is worth.

wow... thats not good. if im registering a 6.4 dkh, i could actually be at 4.4? have you used their test checker to see if its correct? dont they include fluid thats at 7 dkh or something?

 

[x2uranium]

7.3

 

[krak256]

7.3

right, so if the test comes out to 7.3, then the test should be fine no?

but dkh shouldnt be swinging that much correct?

 

[29reef]

What's your magnesium and pH levels?

 

[krak256]

ok, i used saliferts dkh check and it seems that the kit is registering the correct dkh. i tested again tonight and my dkh is at 6.4. im going to dose esv 2 part to bring dkh back up.

What's your magnesium and pH levels?

my mag is 1275 and ph is 8.4.

i think i must have gotten a bad reef crystals batch. my levels are way too low. what should i do? make a new batch of water and test it?

 

[RRaider]

ok, i used saliferts dkh check and it seems that the kit is registering the correct dkh. i tested again tonight and my dkh is at 6.4. im going to dose esv 2 part to bring dkh back up.



my mag is 1275 and ph is 8.4.

i think i must have gotten a bad reef crystals batch. my levels are way too low. what should i do? make a new batch of water and test it?

You can buy salt that has the perfect amounts of everything, put it in your tank and in a day or two your alk and cal will be low. That's why SPS require dosing or a cal reactor etc. You just need to get your levels up and then figure out a dosing schedule that will keep them where you want them. Make sure the levels in your water change water match as well and if they don't then add what it needs until they do before you do a water change.

 

[krak256]

hmm, sps can lower dkh that fast? i can understand cal, but dkh too?

RRaider, i will test my new water before i do a water change and see how it comes out. does that fact i dump my salt in fast rather than slowly affect parameters? (ie cal, dkh, and mag?)

 

[plancton]

Yes it can lower alk as fast as calc, they go on the same rate basically. Do you have a calcium reactor?, you should get one and also manual dosing. Also In my own experience liquid supplements are not nearly as concentrated as powder form. Many people think liquid is better because of stability, but I found out you can get the same results with powder form as long as you add lots of Mag in powder form too. In the long run you realize that liquid ionically balanced supplements are not money wise on the long run.

The way I solved parameter swings is> I slowly calibrated my calcium reactor so that it mantains my levels, then I add a bottle of Mag in powder form to my ATO, every week. And that is keeping my Mag levels at 1400 mg/l , I can also keep adding Mag and it won't overdose easily.

And since I do weekly water changes, I add alk and calcium in powder form after that, and I keep them at 500mg/l of calc, and 12-14 dkh, after a whole week and the water change they get to 480 mg/l and around 11dkh and again I add the powders, so its pretty much stable for the whole week, honestly Mag does help a lot.

 

[krak256]

Yes it can lower alk as fast as calc, they go on the same rate basically. Do you have a calcium reactor?, you should get one and also manual dosing. Also In my own experience liquid supplements are not nearly as concentrated as powder form. Many people think liquid is better because of stability, but I found out you can get the same results with powder form as long as you add lots of Mag in powder form too. In the long run you realize that liquid ionically balanced supplements are not money wise on the long run.

The way I solved parameter swings is> I slowly calibrated my calcium reactor so that it mantains my levels, then I add a bottle of Mag in powder form to my ATO, every week. And that is keeping my Mag levels at 1400 mg/l , I can also keep adding Mag and it won't overdose easily.

And since I do weekly water changes, I add alk and calcium in powder form after that, and I keep them at 500mg/l of calc, and 12-14 dkh, after a whole week and the water change they get to 480 mg/l and around 11dkh and again I add the powders, so its pretty much stable for the whole week, honestly Mag does help a lot.

very helpful, thanks. im back at 6.4 dkh today and 400 calc. just dosed 2 part. damn, the swings are way too much. im planning on getting a profilux doser to dose 2 part for me. i do not have a calcium reactor.

should i be adding kalk to my ATO?

 

[chadfarmer]

magnesium i see low in a lot of tanks lately

 

[plancton]

If you thought you had problems keeping parameters stable think twice before using kalk which is hard to use and dose.

Its a 34g so its not that big. I would dose seachem reef builder and seachem advantage calcium, everyday I would first dose reef builder, wait an hour and then dose advantage calcium, everyday, you would still have swings because your consumption seems big, but say you keep your calcium at 480 and the next day the swing gets it to 450, and alk at 12dkh and the swing gets it to 10dkh then that wouldnt be that hurtful because you would still be in a good range as oppossed to the 400 and 6.4 low ranges you are right now.

Oh and by adding magnesium you will notice how easier is to keep both calcium and alk from pushing down each other.

A note on liquid supplements: I bought kent marine part a part b, in gallon bottles, and they look big and stuff, but then you begin adding a lot of the liquid and realize you need to use a lot in order to raise a parameter, and then I get the same result with say 2 spoons of powder form, so for me it wasnt worth it investing on liquid, again. Perhaps thats the problem you´re having, that you think you´re adding enough when in reality the concentration of the ESV liquid product is to low and thus cant really boost a high level range.

So basically I would dose both supplements daily, the ammount will be determined by you. If you have the money you can get dosing pumps, however they still need to be calibrated, and liquid supplements are not moneywise as I told you, you could go with powder dissolved in water but I dont know how much you would end up spending in dosing pumps.

very helpful, thanks. im back at 6.4 dkh today and 400 calc. just dosed 2 part. damn, the swings are way too much. im planning on getting a profilux doser to dose 2 part for me. i do not have a calcium reactor.

should i be adding kalk to my ATO?

 

[dmorel]

There is a sticky at the top of the forum on alk, calc, mag and keeping them in check, be worth a read.

To sum up most of the great advice you've been given here:

Test at the same time a few days in a row, and that will show you your daily usage of alk and calc, and then you can set up a dosing schedule to make up that much daily. If possible, adding the amount you burn up over 24 hours should be done in multiple small doses versus one large daily dose. Mag can be added a little less often but should remain high and close to your target as proper Mag levels impacts the stability of Alk and Calc.

 

[cubman20]

I have a 40 breeder with 20 sps corals in it.
cal 400-420
mag 1400
But the alk goes from 7-8 thats with 2tsb of alk buffer in afternoon and night.
What is the best buffer to use.

 

[Toadally]

I have a 25gal. AGA tank loded with SPS and I use right at 47ml. of each every day. I use BRS dosers automated with a Reef Keeper Lite dosing for 1 minute 45 seconds every 40 minutes around the clock. It keeps my parameters rock solid......8-9 dkh 440-460 cal.