diving in to the world of stomatopods...

[wilmonkey5]

I'm starting my research of mantis shrimp. And i thought id get some input from you all.

1) is maintaining a mantis challenging?
2) is it going to make me go bankrupt? (i have a saltwater tank it sure puts a hole in my wallet.)
3) is it worth it?

i also have some question on type of mantis.
the tank will be a 29 gal (36"X12"X16")
glass thickness 1/4"

4)what mantis wont break my glass?
5)what mantis is active?
6)what mantis will i be able to find some one selling?

i don't plan on getting water till I've done all my research.

~thanks~

 

[Koshmar]

1. not at all, I'm new to aquariums in general and I've had mine for about a month.
2. It will make you go bankrupt if you don't know how to cut costs, I can do another post for you if you want on how to do this when you're ready.
3. Yes! For the same price I could have bought two ps3's and I still think I chose the right thing.
4. Smaller species (N. wennerae) won't break your glass, my tank has 1/2 inch thick sides and bottom. The only panel you really have to worry about is the bottom. Spears don't break glass to my knowledge.
5. Roy's list will tell you a lot about care and interactivity. Look at the top of the page for Roy's list.
6. Stomatopod.com

Best thing to do is research until your eyes pop out from reading. Go to your local library, university, or the many excellent forums:
mantisshrimp.uk
nanoreef
reeftank
stomatopod.com
(this one obviously)
Just to name a few.

 

[TrappedMetal]

Koshmar forget the S!
MantisShrimps.co.uk

 

[wilmonkey5]

Koshmar,
thanks for all that information
i would like to know how you cut cost on your mantis tank
from what ive read it seems the "spears" are harder to find
is that true?

trapped,
thanks for the website

 

[TrappedMetal]

Also take a look at the FAQ on MantisShrimps.co.uk.

 

[wilmonkey5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13802622#post13802622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TrappedMetal
Also take a look at the FAQ on MantisShrimps.co.uk.

will do.

 

[Koshmar]

Oooops! Sorry, I have most of those sites set on my favorites. Letters are very important! Anyway, the other day I was at the aquarium I volunteer for, while doing some water chems I started paying more attention to their sumps and the setups. It hit me like a bolt of lighting, which channeled that energy into a little light bulb that sprung over my head... Sumps are really easy to make. I felt so stupid because I had already paid a lot of money for a high quality sump (predrilled and what not). I could have easily made it on my own. Some of the more experienced members can probably give you better advice but you can basically make a sump out of a cheap plasic tub or tank, egg crate, those plastic bottle wrapper things that fish and birds like to choke on, a strainer, and some tubing. Probably less than $20 to make your own sump. You don't even really need to buy bioballs, I've heard of people using legos instead. I would'nt recommend it but you get the picture. By making your own sump, you can shave hundreds off you setup price. Just browse through some of the forums, usually under equipement. Some neat setups I just got done looking at were on stomatopod.com forums. Don't make the same mistake I did and go out and spend hundreds more than you have to. Again the point is, research before buying.

I've heard spears are harder to find at lfs because they never come in LR. I don't know how true this is but if you are willing to pay there is usually someone willing to sell. Stomatopod.com is probably the only website I have stumbled upon that sells a mantis other than "peacock". Another way to get a spearer that I found was through aquarium connections. One of the keepers at the aquarium I volunteer at showed me this index of suppliers where he could get just about anything you can think of. I was shocked at the sheer amount of contacts in his list. I don't know if you have an aquarium in your area, but going to one would be another path to take. I'm not sure how open the staff would be to giving you that kind of info but it's worth a try.

 

[wilmonkey5]

I'm definitely going to be getting a spear even though i may have to wait, because i don't want to deal with shatter proofing everything.

i don't know what I'm going to do sump wise, if i do one.

but for filtration i was going to have a couple mangroves and lots of macro algae.

 

[justinl]

As mentioned, there are only a few smashing mantids that can break a tank.

If you're set on a spearer, check out stomatopod.com's P. ciliata. Note that many spearers need a dsb at least as deep as 1.5X the mantis' length. P. ciliata does not.

while they are pretty, mangroves do essentially nothing. A well designed macro sump can do good though.

 

[Koshmar]

If you setup a sump, you won't have to worry about "shatter proofing" anything. Most of your equipment will go in the sump, like the heater, thermometer, ect... If you get a small smasher, N.wennerae, I don't think you'll have a problem with any smashing. If your getting a spearer, from what I've heard a P. ciliata will probably be your best bet. I have'nt kept one but if you view some of the posts in the forums from people who have, you will see that most people rate them as very active and hardy. Definately check out Mantisshrimps.co.uk on the species care section for these guys. You will need a lot of sand for a spearer and access to a lfs that can give you a good deal on live feeders. Again I would consult with TrappedMetal, I believe he has kept spears before. I'm working on a seperate tank to grow macroalgae and propagate snails for my main tank. You may want to look into refugiums, that sounds like the route your going.

 

[wilmonkey5]

"access to a lfs that can give you a good deal on live feeders"

like snails crabs and fish?

"while they are pretty, mangroves do essentially nothing."

i am purely having them for appearance. but i will have many other
macros ( multiple types of calupra , cheato clups, codium, etc.)

"P. ciliata. Note that many spearers need a dsb at least as deep as 1.5X the mantis' length. P. ciliata does not."

i am planning on a 3-5" sand bed with a fairly large pvc in the sand for a burrow. that good?


this is my idea

pros cons please

~thanks~

 

[Koshmar]

That picture is awesome! I would frame that and put it on my wall, it makes me smile everytime I look at it. I'm just kidding around, I know you rushed and everything. It is ironic though because we're talking about caring for a marine organism and that picture looks like it would be at home on my refrigerator. I love it! Sorry I could'nt help it, it's just so funny. Thanks for making me laugh wilmonkey. I'm not insulting you. Please don't take offense.

I get what your showing and all, except for the foam part. Aside from that it looks ok. Personally I prefer to let nature take its course, no pvc, ect... You can do whatever you want, it's your tank. I really think you should go refugium or take justin's advice for the macro sump. They are just really cool, especially when you have little pods swimming all over the place and what not. As for the lfs thing, what I mean is do some shopping around. I visited every lfs in my general area (up to 30-40 min drive distance) and rated each one. I chose the one that had the best prices, most knowledgable staff, and the best business practices. A good lfs will usually give you deals on live food after you establish yourself as a frequent customer. This was my experience anyway. Both parties win, I get cheap food and they get a constant buyer for their live stock. Ask questions that you know the answer to and test them for knowledge. A good lfs can go a long way toward helping you with any problems that might arise.
For more specifics on spearer care, again consult the species care info on mantisshrimps.co.uk and ask those who have kept spearers (not me). For this reason you might be right on the pvc burrow thing, I just don't use it for my smasher, spearers might need it though, I'm not sure.

 

[justinl]

looks good to me. koshmar, I think the foam thing is just fake rock made of insulating foam and covered with sand; correct me if im wrong wil. no sump then? Be sure not to have a glass heater or thermometer hanging in the display tank; most of us use a good plastic heater like the visi-therm stealth. the 3-5in bed with pvc burrow will be fine for P. ciliata, but keep in mind that P. ciliata is basically treated like a smasher. Most other spearers require a much deeper sand bed; i think P. ciliata is probably the best spearer for you at any rate. The mantis might also just ignore the pvc and make a burrow under the LR.

be sure to research the foam thing carefully. over time, the stuff falls apart in a marine environment, so you'll probably want to seal it with something. or even just use it as a mold to make a fiberglass cast? up to you really. any reason (other than cost) you don't want to just use some actual LR?

 

[Paul B]

I collect them in NY using SCUBA at night. The type we have here grow to about 6" long. I used to kep them in a 5 gallon tank for years. It never broke the glass or anything else. That tank which is still running is the cheapest tank I ever had requiring almost no maintenance. I used the discarded water from my reef for water changes and once in a while I put a canister filter on it. I fed him shrimp, or clams.

 

[wilmonkey5]

"foam thing is just fake rock made of insulating
foam and covered with sand"

yeah that's it, but I'm making it almost hallow
to let the mangroves make their rooting
systems in side of it.

"no sump then?"

that's correct.

"be sure to research the foam thing carefully.
over time, the stuff falls apart in a marine
environment, so you'll probably want to
seal it with something. or even just use
it as a mold to make a fiberglass cast?"

yeah i was thinking about that i have to
go hit up the DIY forum...

"The mantis might also just ignore the pvc
and make a burrow under the LR."

yeah i was thinking of that. any ideas of
getting it to take the fake burrow? ( rhyme
:rollface: )

"most of us use a good plastic heater like
the vii-therm stealth."

that's the one i was planning on getting.
should i hide it in the sand bed?

now questions for you guys.

what would be the most economical way
for feeding it (live foods and, frozen )
i was thinking maby table shrimp 2 table
shrimp a week and every other week
live food :fun2:

that good or too much to little?

and i have 2 LFS and i cant really choose...

LFS 1: 10 mins away, pretty knowledgeable
except for the new trainees... okay prices
maby not the best. fairly large slections.

LFS 2: 1 hour away, very knowledgeable
good prices. amazing fish, coral, invert
selection

grr :mad2: i think i leaning to LFS 1 becuase
its more convenient.

i do make 1 trip to LFS 2 maby 1 every 1-2
months unless

i go for something specific (not to browse)

ohh I'm not sure if you noticed ut the water
level in my picture is a little more than
half way. is that okay i have it to kinda
make the the mangroves look like its on
an island

one last question on this very long post...

on stomatopod.com when you look at
their mantises for sale the P. Ciliata are all
a white is Grey, it because there young and
haven't got their yellowish colors or are they
just whitish their whole life?


wheeew that was a long post! :bum:

 

[justinl]

No way really to get a mantis to take to a burrow of your choosing. it's all chance really. Just a let the bug make up its own mind.

never ever hide a heater in the sand. Heaters have to be in open water preferably in a place exposed to high flow.

food: I find the easiest, cheapest food source is the grocery store's frozen section. Pick out any three of a myriad of fleshy marine foods. I feed my mantis table shrimp, silverside, and pacific little neck clams. They aren't picky but you really should cycle through three different foods; just shrimp and live doesn't really cut it nutrition wise... not in the long term anyways. You will learn how much to feed by watching the mantis; note how much it eats before it throws the food out; you'll also have to judge based on how big it is. It is also good to supplement the food once in a while with a supplement like selcon or vita-chem once in a while.

A few live hard shelled feeds a month is all you really need for a smasher. I usually go out once a month and buy a few turbos and hermits and stop feeding the mantis. just let him go to town for a week. If you feel like feeding live more often than that, go ahead. That said, P. ciliata is a spearer! you don't really need to buy any live for that guy; probably couldn't handle snails or hermits anyways. feel free to get the odd fish (must be significantly smaller than the mantis) or shrimp though. the mantis won't hate you for it.

mmm... if you keep a low water level, keep in mind the reduced volume. you'll probably essentially be dealing with a 20g at that point; plan the bioload accordingly. P. ciliata's minimum tank size is 20g anyways; footprint is more important to a mantis in terms of territory, so you're probably even better off with your plan than with a standard 20g. have you considered making the mangrove island into a pinnacle instead? that way you could fill the tank to its normal level.

and finally, P. ciliata is a highly color morphic species. Give a mantis a different environment and it will likely change color when it molts to whatever it thinks is most suitable. I believe the golden morph is usually caused by the presence of many hiding places and light. A lack of predators might help. Different cues= different morphs. More research could be done in this field. That's half the fun really though; get the mantis and just see what happens

if I get carpal tunnel, im sending you the medical bill!

 

[wilmonkey5]

"No way really to get a mantis to take to a
burrow of your choosing."

well have to find out then. oh yeah how
wide should the PVC be?

"never ever hide a heater in the sand."
good to know

"feel free to get the odd fish "

could you go more in depth i going to
be getting a P. ciliata if not
another spear type.

"mmm... if you keep a low water level,
keep in mind the reduced volume."

didn't think about that maby ill have to
raise the island

" have you considered making the
mangrove island into a pinnacle instead?"

i have know idea what that is.
maby you could post i picture.
I'd like to have other options
besides mangrove island.

"P. ciliata is a highly color morphic species."

just figured that out right before i checked
your post.



:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

 

[justinl]

the pvc burrow's diameter should be no more than 1.5X teh mantis' own body width. whatever that might be.

When I said the odd fish, I meant as live food. the smaller and less aggressive the better; chromis for example. cheap gobies or live shrimp might not be bad either. no freshwater feeders.

Remember that pretty much the only viable option as far as spearers go for you is the P. ciliata since you probably dont want to have a DSB a foot thick. there's other cavity dwelling spearers around, but we don't see them in the trade really.

a pinnacle is just a column of rock. a raised island basically. this is not my tank; member's username is Travis. the rock pile in the middle is a pinnacle/column

You could also suspend a piece of rock in the midwater by attaching it to a magnet and having the magnet clamp to the glass (hydor koralia style); has to be a strong enough magnet.

 

[wilmonkey5]

here is my other idea...

pros cons?


justinl, im working on making an foot print for a pinnacle

 

[wilmonkey5]

this thread seems to be running dry.
so lets give it a big...
:fun4: :bounce1::bounce2: :bounce3: BUMP! :bounce3: :bounce2: :bounce1::fun4: