DIY cooler using well water

Pokerman11

Member
Was thinking on using cool water from my well to help cool the tank. I'm on a well/septic - take water out of the ground and then put it back so there is no waste - just small amount of electricity to move the water around. At the tap temp is 47

Trying to figure out how much cooling energy this 47D water will provide, as well as a transfer method. Yes I could just throw a roll of 1/4 tube in my sump and put a needle valve on it and let it try cooling.


Also going to get a roll of 1/4tube and let the water run thru the roll to warm it up a bit prior to going into the RO/DI to improve efficiency. May throw that in the sump also.

Anybody body doing something of this sort?
 
It would work, but would actually be very wasteful.

First, it would put many, many more hours on your well pump, which equals wear and expense. Second, it would effectively turn potable water into sewage without doing much good in the process. Finally, it may overload your septic tank. Remember that even a slow trickle is still a lot of water when it runs 24/7.
 
I could run the "waste" outside to water the grass. The well pump would have no issues with the extra water, its a high cap system with extra large holding tanks for sprinkers. Taking water out of the ground and returning it is not in issue in my area. (As I look out my window over the lake)

Can't see how this would be wasteful, and actually be more green as it would use less electric than a powered cooler.

Mostly looking for idea on how to do it.
 
It would work very well provided you have a good heat exchanger, PVC will severely limit the heat exchange. (as will most plastics) Maybe you could get a broken chiller and use its heat exchanger.
 
why not get a cooler with some thick insulation, throw a small pump in it connected to a coil of hose in your sump and dump back into the cooler, throw some ice in the cooler. you freezer is making ice anyway. Depending on how much cooling you require you may only need to fill the cooler every few days with new ice. Dump the melted ice on your lawn and no waste
 
To cool a 110g with MH I think ice from the freezer is not going to be enough but I do like the cooler idea. Lets say I put in a coil of 1/2" tube into a cooler that cycles water from my sump via a powerhead.

Feed the cooler with well cold water, and and overflow drain.

Automated when the power head comes on via a temp controller.
 
Do a test and see how effective it is in cooling. I'm doubtful that flex tubing will give you enough heat exchange to make it viable, but I may be wrong.

Get a cooler fill it up set it at room temp then start the well water running and see how much it is cooled in an hour. Do two containers if you really want to know using one as a control.
 
Tks SGT

I've read about folks that do the inverse of this to pre-warm RO/DI feed water. I'll play around with throwing a coil of 1/4 RO tube in a 5G bucket when making RO and do some readings.

I do like your idea of finding a old heat exchanger the best. Or find something similer to do the heat exchange. Just need to figure out how to automate it with a temp controller. I have some 12V sprinkler values to turn on/off the well water, could work with that I guess.
 
i did exactly this back in my old house and it worked *fantastically*. i had 4 tanks plumbed together totaling ~200g, each with halides and no AC.

i just used a 25' coil of 1/4" poly in the sump. sure you could do it with 12" or whatever of titanium, but poly works great (easy, cheap, nothing to leak). needle valve to bring it down to a drip, and a solenoid to turn it on/off via a temp controller.

'used' water was sent out to the garden, but it wasn't really that much. cold well water goes a *long* way.


the only problem i had was condensation on the cold side of the line before the coil. so i ran it through some 1/2" vinyl or whatever as a sleeve.
 
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This is another one of those situations where I really don't understand all the discussion. This isn't something to wonder about or guess about and it isn't open for opinion.

Why guess when you could just do the stupid math and know for certain? Are people that afraid of mathematics these days? Or do they just not understand that this problem has been worked out over and over and over and all you need to do is plug the numbers into the formula and see how much cooling you can theoretically create?
 
+1 on cheap poly tube with solenoid. I have used it in my old house as well. Works really good! Heat exchange depends only on the lenghts of tube an water flow.
 
This is another one of those situations where I really don't understand all the discussion. This isn't something to wonder about or guess about and it isn't open for opinion.

Why guess when you could just do the stupid math and know for certain? Are people that afraid of mathematics these days? Or do they just not understand that this problem has been worked out over and over and over and all you need to do is plug the numbers into the formula and see how much cooling you can theoretically create?

The real issues is knowing said formula, or being able to find all the variables needed to calculate this, such as the variable for tubing material and length of the coil. After 10 minutes of google searches, I could not find all the info needed to calculate a rough estimate.

If you know this formula and the variables, or a link to find it please just share the info, it would be much appreciated.
 
I had a lengthy (and somewhat snarky) response about the generational lack of science being taught and applied to common problems in favor of teaching the new science of opinion. I deleted it...

In short, we live in a world were opinion is used daily to trump fact and drive consumer and political habits, with this generations nit-wits becoming the next generations (literal) teachers. A society full of folks not taught the fundamental skills needed to invent or survive without the help of governments. Bleh...

From science class in 6th grade (I am 43, so maybe they don't teach science anymore)... 1 BTU equals the amount of energy needed to heat or cool 1 pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit.

If we look at our 100 gallon aquarium that we want to maintain at 80F and observe that it rises to 86F over the 10 hours that the lights are on, then we know that the tank has absorbed about 5,000 BTUs of energy. (100 Gallons* 8.33 Pounds * 6D = 4998 BTUs)

If we know (for example) that the well water is 65F, we can cool the tank water with it. If we coil up a bunch of tubing and toss it in the sump, then run well water through it we can transfer the heat from the tank water into the well water.

How much heat needs to be transferred? Well 5,000 BTUs in 10 hours, or roughly 8.5 BTUs per minute to maintain the water at 80F.

The temperature differential between the tank target temperature (80) and the well water (65) is 15 degrees. If we pump .25 gallons per minute of well water through the heat exchanger tubing coiled up in the sump, that would mean we have a potential heat exchange of around 124 BTUs per minute. You see .25 gallons of water weighs about 2 pounds. The Delta T is 15 degrees, so that 2 pounds of water has the potential to do 30 BTUs of work. We only need around 8.5 BTUs right? So working backward 8.5/2 = 4.25. That means if we can get the water leaving the heat exchanger to be 4.25 degrees F warmer (69.25F) then we can keep the tank at a constant temperature.

What does that all mean? Simple enough. You simply need to make the heat exchanger at least that efficient and then control it with a temperature controller.

How do you make the exchanger that efficient? You make the material more heat conductive or you make the contact area longer or you make the contact time longer, or any combination of the above.

You are limited in materials (I will leave this to others willing to contribute) but you can change the length and the flow rate of coolant. Clearly, in this case we want to minimize the use of coolant, so the longer the contact time and the larger the contact area the better....

Hope that gives you a start Zachts (and others).

Of course, there are already dozens of heat exchanger formulas and methods to calculate what is needed, but with the simple information above, one can use trial and error to arrive at a reasonable and efficient result :)



So if you need to maintain the temperature in a 100 gallon tank that gains 2 degrees in an hour from its desired set-point...
 
The real issues is knowing said formula, or being able to find all the variables needed to calculate this, such as the variable for tubing material and length of the coil. After 10 minutes of google searches, I could not find all the info needed to calculate a rough estimate.

If you know this formula and the variables, or a link to find it please just share the info, it would be much appreciated.

Nah, I do stuff like this all the time. I don't need to know formulas. It's enough just to know that the formula exists. Finding someone to explain it is the easy part. BeanAnimal has given you more than enough to run with. If you need more I'd suggest talking to an engineer. They're not hard to find. Surely you can find someone to explain it.
 
Personally I didn't need it explained, I just couldn't find all the information to plug into a formula, or all the needed formulas. Math is easy, it's the information needed to perform the math that is not always so easy to find.......

Thanks Bean for posting that summary, (though that was the easy part to find via google)

The parts I cannot find for doing this scientifically are info on the heat transfer per material and length of coil and flow rate? I'm sure it's out there I just can't find it. Really that is getting into the weeds of not really needed information but if you're going to calculate something might as well do it completely.

How many feet of tubing are needed to fully transfer all the available BTU's and the flow rate needed plus calibrated lenght of tubing to achieve the desired pull down in temp while maximizing the use of available cooling power (ie. well water in this example)

You could easily just put the longest coil that fit conveniently in the sump in there and adjust flow rate until water leaving the sump coil was the same temp as the tank water thus maximizing the efficiency. But what's the point of calculating something without ALL of the variables? you might end up using 10 times the tubing necessary, or not having enough. and if you didn't use enough you then have to run more water thru it thus reducing efficiency and putting more strain on the supply, to achieve the desired temperature control.
 
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Search for titanium heat exchanger for pool/spa on e-bay or around the internet. I have not used one personally, but I think it will work best. Much more expensive than pex coil of course.
 
That was kind of my point, is the expense of titanium justified or will 25 feet of 1/4" PE tubing work just as well?
 
I couldn't find any in my google searching, if you happen to know of them would you mind sharing?

If Google is your best resource, then yes this might be hard to find.

Why not ask an engineer? We do stuff like this all the time at my business where we have no idea what goes into figuring something but know it can be done. A few calls to an engineering department at the local University or getting on one of their forums and I can usually find someone who knows what they are doing fairly quickly.
 
I highly doubt any engineer will have the heat exchanging capacity of plastic tubing. (certainly don't know where to start looking) It just isn't done. you need a formula based on the conductiveness of the medium. If you run more water through the pipe than the exchanger can handle you are just wasting effort. I can certainly give you good formulas based on titanium, copper, aluminum, or tin, but plastic as a heat exchanger nope not there. In the engineering world he'd use titanium, however that is likely not in the OP's budget, if it were he could just buy a chiller.

A simple proof of concept test to analyze the cooling capacity of tubing would demonstrate the poential for success. Without statistical evidence to estimate the rate of heat exchange the engineering is useless.

Purchasing a broken chiller will give you the required information to do the engineering estimates.

Zachs the point is 25' of pex tubing would not even come close to the level of heat exchange provided by a metallic exchanger, as plastic is considered an insulator not a conductor of heat.
 
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