Dr. Shimek - a question regarding a technique in your book - p.26

[Mushroom Boy]

First let me say thanks for writing such a great book that speaks well to the layman (whom I epitomize, might I add ). I've enjoyed it immensely!

My question is regarding the dosing of kalkwasser directly into the venturi intake of a protein skimmer as you describe on pg 26. If this is done, and calcium phosphate is precipitated as a result in the skimmate, does this negate the other benefits normally associated with the dosing of kalkwasser, wherein I mean to say, does it "spend" the beneficial capacity of the kalkwasser or is this just another great side effect thereof. Was that a run on sentence?

Thanks very much in advance!
Paul.

 

[rshimek]

Hi Paul,

The precipitation of calcium phosphate in this manner was first described by Craig Bingman, and it is one of the best side benefits of adding kalkwasser.

So, it doesn't hurt in any way and benefits mightily!

Cheers, Ron

 

[horge]

Errr, can I butt in?
If I read your question right, Mushroom Boy, then the answer is: yes, of course it expends some free calcium.

There is a little less calcium dissolved in the water precisely because some of it has been used to lock down (with varying degrees of permanence) dissolved phosphates that your "skimmer" can extract for true export out of your tank system.

Rshimek is above pointing out that this neutralization of algae-encouraging material is one of the best benefits to kalking in the first place. That's a benefit you shouldn't begrudge the calcium spent!

It's a cool trick to kalk in the place that makes true export (via skimming) of the phosphate more efficient: in the skimmer!

..sorry for butting in,
I will now butt right back out...

horge

 

[jimhobbs]

Ok, ok, this sounds like just the reason I've been needing to get busy!

Let's see if I've managed to get the right picture...Feed the output of the kalk dosing system {drip tube}, into the intake of the venturi assembly of a skimmer, increases the efficency of the skimmer??...The amount of kalk I've been addding to a 29gal tank was around 1500ml daily to replace evaporation...This was added over a period of an hour...I've never had much luck in adding 24/7 and was feeding the output directly into the main chamber of my emperior filter each morning...Here lately, I've been using the b-ionic instead of the morning mixing ritual...Lazy...

Will the benefits to this addition leave , if the kalk is added over a one hour period instead of 24/7?? {say no, so I'll stop being lazy}

Best regards...Jim
icq# 60099015
knock lightly,
operator error,
error,
???

 

[horge]

Jim?
Don't know what you mean by increased skimmer efficiency from kalking directly into the skimmer. Sure the amount of phosphate yanked theoretically increases, but I guess its mostly the phosphate export that increases from direct injection and not broad spectrum skimmer efficiency. As to 24/7, err, what the heck is that? A calcium (etc.) additive, from your sentence construction.

If so, any calcium included in a shelf-storage product may be compounded or chelated to be magically (hehe) safe from "theft" by ionically-friendly elements and yet available for bio-utilization. If it IS 'magically' protected, I wonder how well it will lock down phosphates.

I also wonder why the heck we don't have any of that stuff here in good-old-kalk land. (Sigh. All those years of mixing kalk...)
I'll shut up now and hope Dr. Shimek or someone more familiar with the merchandise there has their say.

 

[jimhobbs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horge:
Jim?
As to 24/7, err, what the heck is that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey horge! That is 24 hours a day, seven days a week The reccommended method for the kalk dosing always says to use, but jim never could get the dripping "hicky" to work right...With the help of Frank Grecco {I wonder where he went to?}, I started the one hour infusion into the filter intake...

Best regards...Jim
icq 60099015-knock lightly
Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!!

 

[horge]

Doh! Do I feel stupid...
Put it down to the ocean between us (it unites and divides). Linguistic shorthand is something I constantly need to brush up on.

Jim, thanks. I sometimes find myself dying to contribute on a thread, but can't because I don't recognize the common names used for corals and fish!!! Typically some loser will flame me for always using scientific names (or clarifying the spelling of the same) ...on some other board that is, hehe.

Please bear with me. I really am trying hard, (English isn't even my first language!) and....What was your question again?

Thanks again,
horge

 

[BristolWorm]

- oops -



[This message has been edited by BristolWorm (edited 01-06-2000).]

 

[BristolWorm]

Hey Horge, on the other board this thread would be closed... 'this is off topic - linguistic short hand and spelling are not reef related' would be the official decision and we would lose good help from guys like you. I appreciate the latin names so keep throwing them out there. It really helps start tying species together for me and besides when I go to the LFS I can sound really cool

- Semper Ubi Sub Ubi -
- Always wear underwear -

Later

------------------
BW

 

[Doug1]

Horge keep the scientific names coming, they are the same everywhere for a reason. Anyone have a common name to go with by all means jump in, that way we can put them together. That is always the problem with common names they can vary or change regionally but the proper latin name will be the same anywhere, no matter the language

------------------
I reefed,so I spent,it would have been cheaper to do it right the first time.........Doug ReefCentral moderator

 

[rayjay]

I would love to use the proper names but I can't even remember them long enough to run upstairs and tell the wife I saw a post with the name of my new coral and it's a .....
At least the common names I have better luck with.

------------------
ICQ #30079114
http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/index.html

 

[SJLord]

I am curious, how would I drip kalk into a bakpak II? and achieve this benefit? Im not really sure how I would get the tube to drip ... ohh you get the idea...

TIA
Steven

------------------
Cant Afford it, Save up, youll need it!

 

[Kevin]

I was dripping the kalk into my surface skimmer on the bakpak II but i had to clean the venturi every week, it would clog with ca buildup. What a pain, so now i just drip it in the return.

------------------
Visit my Reef
http://members.xoom.com/Reef29/

 

[Doug]

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone drip kalk with a downdraft skimmer? Would you drip the kalk into the air intake or somewhere else. I have an ETS Reef Devil and the only place I could think of dripping the kalk into is the air intake.

Doug

------------------
http://38.222.244.200/dougw

 

[Mushroom Boy]

Thanks for the help everyone!

Horge. Was my begrudging that obvious? I agree with the others, keep the Latin names coming!!

SJLord. I have a BakPakII as well that I'm dripping the kalk into. What I've got is the main kalk dispenser (a glorified gallon container with an air hose pushed into it) that I use a plastic air valve to regulate the flow of. This runs into a 3 way valve. One of the 3 is the kalk from the dispenser, one is an extra length of air hose for air and the third leads to the venturi intake. In between the 3 way valve and the venturi intake is another plastic air valve that I use to regulate the air intake. Since the kalk drip is set to a constant, the more I open this last plastic valve, the more air is allowed into the intake. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.

Jim, I was wondering the same thing as to whether the benefits are better realized with a 24/7 drip rather than a couple of hours a day (as I do as well).

Paul.

 

[Larry M]

Yes, scientific names=good. We should all try to use them as often as we can.

------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef

 

[Tommy]

just floating up

 

[horge]

Okay, okay: "would a 24 hour drip be better than a short-burst drip?". I assume you're dosing the same amount of calcium over a longer period of time on the 24/7... (woohoo, I got to use it!!!)

...the 24/7...
(woohoo again!)

Like throwing a coarse fishnet all day versus using a fine one for a few hours, it depends on the size of the fish. Or analogically, the concentration of PO4.

There is a threshold Ca++ level over which PO4 lockdown accelerates. (There's ALWAYS free calcium in the water, why doesn't it automatically bind to all available phosphate?) The concentrated explosion of a couple-of-hours drip works better at lockdown because it clearly breaches the 'threshold'.

The danger is in gauging the level of PO4: If there's too little, the explosion's malevolence is directed at livestock --which is why 24/7 (oooh yeah) is the safe way to go. I put up with only two years of Chem, so maybe I'm NOT the one who should be talking.

BTW, are there ANY chemistry-based professionals/students here? I'm not asking for a Tim Hovanec, but I would like to stop feeling foolish for having spoken...

 

[Steve Richardson]

I think you folks are really worrying about this too much. Unless you are continually importing good quantities of phosphates into the tank, you shouldnt have to bend over backwards to keep it out of the tank.

Especially if you both run a skimmer and dose kalk. Over time, these should certainly do it.

Rons suggestion to feed kalk right into the skimmer is a good one (I've always had some doubts about kalks ability do precip phos IN the tank, not just out of the kalk solution itself...and this makes sense.), but if you have to take that step because of a PO4 problem, then perhaps you need to determine where all of the phosphate is coming from - not necessarily how to get rid of it on an ongoing basis. Does that make any sense? This logic is similar to: The tank is hot, add a chiller - rather than just using cooler lights, or venting the hood.

I tend to drip kalk 24/7 fwiw. The pH doesnt fluctuate quite as much when I do it this way. If I dose more than a gallon or so in an 8 hour period, then I sometimes errode my alkalinity - so I generally drip about 1.5-2G over a 24H period in my 75G.

thoughts,

Steve

 

[smpolyp]

Doug I have dosed kalk in the air intake of a down draft.Yes it does work.
The increase of Ph seems the ionic charge of the skimmer work better.
If you does it into the intake doesn't that cut your venturi air intake down?Water pressure?Would it be better to does it into the colum of the skimmer where the Ionic charege takes place the most?
And the sci name help since thier are to many common names that mean the same.