sonict72
New member
This is incorrect. Lab testing is done at UL or UL certified labs. It is absolutely not self certified. There is even periodic follow up testing to ensure that the manufacturer did not cheat with the initial samples.
e-bay powerheads
- Thread starter whilb
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This is incorrect. Lab testing is done at UL or UL certified labs. It is absolutely not self certified. There is even periodic follow up testing to ensure that the manufacturer did not cheat with the initial samples.
I agree, except many times you pay just for the brand name and how can you know without trying. I prefer Costco coffee to other brands. Thats what is so great about this forum you can learn from others.
jkf1983
Premium Member
Thanks. I meant 12v DC versus 120v AC.
harry r
New member
Sonict72, sorry but you are incorrect. i used to work there and saw it first hand. the mfg's submit the data for UL to audit. There is a follow up program but thats mainly for materials . Its not like it used to be when UL and CSA tested everything and kept a tight grip on the product in the name of safety. I have no doubt that there are good mfg's, but to hang your hat on a UL or CSA mark is not the be all and end all like it used to be. Most of my friends at UL don't trust the mark like it used to be. You are better off like mentioned above on relying on a gfi and/or a ground probe.
sonict72
New member
This is from the UL's website.. It definitely is not a self certifying process. It is possible that a product does not go through full scrutiny because it is a simple device made up of well known components that are already approved. In any case, I would feel much better knowing that a product is UL listed. I do not care much for CSA and it's no wonder many electronics sold on Ebay are CSA listed but no UL.
Testing and evaluation of samples of products submitted for certification can be performed in UL's laboratories or in laboratories qualified by UL assessment and ongoing monitoring (see the Data Acceptance Program Web page for more information on testing performed by outside laboratories). Only UL reviews the results of all testing and evaluation and decides if the product is eligible for certification.
UL must initiate Follow-up Service in which periodic audits of products at the factory are completed by UL Field Representatives (see FUStart for more information about UL Follow-Up Service). These audits are described in a Follow-Up Service Procedure that is created as part of the initial evaluation of the product. For some products, factory samples are selected for retesting at UL.
Testing and evaluation of samples of products submitted for certification can be performed in UL's laboratories or in laboratories qualified by UL assessment and ongoing monitoring (see the Data Acceptance Program Web page for more information on testing performed by outside laboratories). Only UL reviews the results of all testing and evaluation and decides if the product is eligible for certification.
UL must initiate Follow-up Service in which periodic audits of products at the factory are completed by UL Field Representatives (see FUStart for more information about UL Follow-Up Service). These audits are described in a Follow-Up Service Procedure that is created as part of the initial evaluation of the product. For some products, factory samples are selected for retesting at UL.
harry r
New member
i agree that seeing a third party certification is better than "nothing" at all, but don't believe all that you read. i have lived it. I was there for almost 25 years and saw the transition from a respected safety firm to an almost bankrupt organization led by a ceo that was a lawyer who believed it was cheaper to litigate than to do the job right the first time (he is no longer there). all i am saying is be careful.
sorry to have somehow highjacked this thread by trying to educate.
sorry to have somehow highjacked this thread by trying to educate.
shayna123
New member
i have one of these and it works fine. my only complaint is the suction cups. i have one of the double ones and its very heavy and the suction cups arent quite strong enough. If there is a magnetic option be sure to pay extra for it if you have to. Otherwise the pump pushes a lot of water and with the double you have many options for flow.
sonict72
New member
It's not third party certification. You can use ul approved labs for testing and submit the results for approval. There is a huge difference. And this is a common practice for agencies dealing with product safety.
sonict72
New member
Your original point was that to be UL listed, the product goes through no formal lab testing and it's a self certifying process. Now you are saying that it is indeed certified by UL after I have shown you that the product must go through lab testing at UL or UL certified labs. You should quit while you are behind.
sonict72
New member
By the way, no product liability insurance company will sell insurance for nonUL listed powerhead. This means the seller and manufacturer do not have liability insurance. Also, check your home owners policy. It may deny coverage for fire damages caused by a nonUL device. Is it still worth it?
harry r
New member
you are so off base it ain't even funny. momma told me not to argue with the ignorant, cause they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. it is you that does not know how the ul or the csa system works. tell me how many years have you worked at UL or CSA?????
and thats bs about insurance too. please stick to what ever it is that you think you really know and stop with this mis-information to these poor people that watch this thread for some real information.
and thats bs about insurance too. please stick to what ever it is that you think you really know and stop with this mis-information to these poor people that watch this thread for some real information.
sonict72
New member
Wow. Just wow. First of all, UL was started by insurance firms. That's where the name comes from. They still depend on them heavily. Insurance companies have denied claims when the cause of the fire has been traced backed to a non UL listed device. Second, working somewhere for 25 years does not make you an expert in something as you are clearly demonstrating.
harry r
New member
wow, "you" really have no clue whats going on. so you don't work there and never have?? so you don't know what the heck you are talking about. stick to some things you know little dude, like maybe fish and leave the discussions of industry to the grown ups in here. I am fully aware of the history. remember "I" did work there. I'd love to give you a complete history lesson on UL and CSA and how it relates to the mfg's and the insurrance industry but i don't have the energy to try to educate you on something you so clearly do not have a grasp on.
done with you.
REMEMBER THIS THREAD IS ABOUT POWER HEADS.
done with you.
REMEMBER THIS THREAD IS ABOUT POWER HEADS.
marius880
New member
I like the arguments.... I find it funny that people have that much time to write such long posts.... but enough with that . we need more info on the powerheads... if and when I get one. I can let others know. but until I do... I guess im just one other member. logging in to check The thread and see where the argument is going.
sonict72
New member
For someone who is so knowledge about the industry, you have not made a single statement that is factually correct. I think it was Mark Twain who said it's not what you don't know that will kill you, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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