Fairy wrasse Photo Library
- Thread starter JohnL
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Weeeeeell I can't see those pics, and don't know if I'm even putting the pics on right, so you guys probablly can't see them either. If that's the case, here are the links!
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/...ID=1523000870/a=48883656_48883656/t_=48883656
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/...ID=1523020414/a=48883656_48883656/t_=48883656
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/...ID=1523000870/a=48883656_48883656/t_=48883656
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/...ID=1523020414/a=48883656_48883656/t_=48883656
jhornik, those links do not work for me.
heuerfan, I think my Blue Margin is also gorgeous and one tough fish
Ninong, it is my impression that supermales are terminal and cannot revert whereas derived males (from females) can revert to females. Is that correct? By the way, welcome aboard!
heuerfan, I think my Blue Margin is also gorgeous and one tough fish
Ninong, it is my impression that supermales are terminal and cannot revert whereas derived males (from females) can revert to females. Is that correct? By the way, welcome aboard!
All supermales are secondary males. They are females first (proto-gynous) before becoming males. Primary males are males that have never been females. They were born male, or, more precisely, they were born with immature male gonads which made them males as they matured. This is known to be true for at least some of the species in the genus Cirrhilabrus.
All Cirrhilabrus species wrasses that were not born as primary males, are born with male and female gonads. As the fish matures, the female gonads mature first (proto-gynous). If there is a "vacancy" in the "leadership," the alpha female will begin to change into male. This process usually takes about three weeks. During that period, if a dominant male shows up and takes over, it is possible for the changing female to halt the sex change process and revert to female. However, if the sex change process is not interrupted and the fish's male gonads mature, then the female gonads will atrophy and the fish will be incapable of reverting back to a functioning female. At this point it would be considered a terminal phase male.
There is a hormone that is triggered (can't remember its name) by sociological change that activates the male gonads. When the male gonads are fully mature, they excrete a hormone that shuts down the female gonads and causes them to atrophy. It's sort of the reverse or what happens with clownfish, which are protandrous hermaphrodites. However, in both cases it is gender determination by social aggression. In the case of clownfish, the larger fish will usually grow at a faster rate than the smaller fish and that's due in part to the fact that the larger fish will prevent the smaller fish from getting to an equal amount of available food, thus ensuring that the size inequality in enhanced. Eventually both fish accept their respective roles in life and peace and tranquility prevail.
In the case of Cirrhilabrus species fairy wrasses, one supermale will usually control a harem of several females and juveniles, sometimes more than a dozen. The females and juveniles will swim close to the bottom, while the supermale patrols a few meters above them. Any primary males, if there are any, will be at the perimeter of the harem, they will not be in the middle of the harem. If anything should happen to the supermale, the most dominant of the females will begin to change sex into male. She would take over once she becomes male, not one of the primary males. Primary males cannot control a harem.
Now, getting to your question of terminal phase males and whether they can revert. All of the literature says that male wrasses cannot revert to female once they have completed the sex change and are terminal phase males. That is even born out by microscopic examination of the gonads. However, I believe it may be possible in a captive environment (meaning an aquarium of average size, not a gigantic 750-gal plus monster) for a terminal phase male fairy wrasse to change its behavior such that two supermales will behave as if they were a mated pair. By this I mean that they will accept each other and become very friendly, even resting side by side on the sandbed. This does not include spawning behavior, just friendly acceptance and an absence of previous aggressive behavior on the part of the more dominant fish.
I believe this is what has led to some vendors who are very experienced in dealing with Cirrhilabrus species wrasses to conclude that they are capable of sex reversal. The vendor who sold me my wrasses is convinced that terminal phase males are capable of sex reversal. He's the only person I have ever come across who believes this. In my own experience, the two supermale Scott's that I ended up with in my tank did not lose typical male coloration but they did come to an "arrangement." They engaged in friendly carouselling (slow swimming in circles behind each other) and even rested side by side on the sandbed, something they would never have done during the first 10 months together. This behavior would seem like pairing but it did not include spawning. I have no idea if both fish retained functioning male gonads or if one of them had experienced a "deactivation" of its male gonads. According to all the literature, the female gonads are kaput at this point and cannot become functional again.
Thanks Ninong, it is the latter behavior that I was referring to. I know that in Genicanthus, I have seen a fish go from female to male and back. I don't know if the female was a functional female. I have seen similar morphological changes in Cirrhilabrus in a moderate (320g) size aquarium. I have two C. bathyphilus that are currently coming to an "accomodation" similar to your description. This was a rather strange accident. Both fish were intermediate post juvenile with one advanced towards becoming a male. The second one caught up and passed the first. It is an interesting behavioral case, one I had never seen previously.
zemuron114
In Memoriam
I can't see a terminal male reverting back to a female. I saw a 6" rhomboid male, and there is no way that male could change to a female... female rhomboids just dont get that big. Im a firm believer if its a terminal male, it will stay that way! 
My LFS added a balteatus to a 400 gallon with trio lineatus, pair rhomboids, harem bathephylus, trio laboutei... the balteatus went in and he imediately starting tweaking out and flaring and flashing and chasing all the other fairies. He went from having NO orange bar to almost a FULL one in a week. It was very cool to see. So with seeing this, i think a fairy can become a full male even if there are not the same species female in the same tank. But that is a very unprofessional point of view
My LFS added a balteatus to a 400 gallon with trio lineatus, pair rhomboids, harem bathephylus, trio laboutei... the balteatus went in and he imediately starting tweaking out and flaring and flashing and chasing all the other fairies. He went from having NO orange bar to almost a FULL one in a week. It was very cool to see. So with seeing this, i think a fairy can become a full male even if there are not the same species female in the same tank. But that is a very unprofessional point of view
achillesheel
New member
sorry to throw of the current topic but...
well a little later than i thought but pix of my new C. roseafacia
i get my second one tomorrow so well see how that works out.
then a lucky shot of my pin tail flashing.. still looking for a couple more of these guys
well a little later than i thought but pix of my new C. roseafacia
i get my second one tomorrow so well see how that works out.
then a lucky shot of my pin tail flashing.. still looking for a couple more of these guys
Yes, I agree. Physiologically it's impossible because the ovarian tissue has degenerated and can't be regenerated. However, I have witnessed behavior modification that can only be described as unexpected.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7985817#post7985817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zemuron114
I can't see a terminal male reverting back to a female. I saw a 6" rhomboid male, and there is no way that male could change to a female... female rhomboids just dont get that big. Im a firm believer if its a terminal male, it will stay that way!
A mature female fairy wrasse can become a male even if it is the only fish in the tank. Sequential hermaphroditism (protogyny or protandry) means that the fish will progress to the terminal gender absent the inhibiting influence of another fish of the terminal gender. This is what happened to me. My mature female C. scottorum was in my tank without any other fairy wrasses for a period of five weeks while I was waiting for a replacement supermale and during that time she managed to change sex to male.i think a fairy can become a full male even if there are not the same species female in the same tank. But that is a very unprofessional point of view
After the arrival of the replacement supermale Scott's, plus a pair of C. lineatus that I regrettably ordered, the resident (formerly female) Scott's proceeded to kill the supermale Lineatus, nearly kill the supermale Scott's and dominate the female Lineatus. The female Lineatus excaped harm only because she was smaller and faster and able to squeeze through tighter spaces.
The incoming supermale Scott's was confined by the now dominant resident Scott's for a period of 10 days. During that time the confined fish did not eat at all and did not leave a small cave. After 10 days, the dominant Scott's permitted the confined supermale to venture out and feed. The supermale was now very obviously submissive, as was the female Lineatus. The resident Scott's (formerly female) patrolled the tank from the surface, swooping down on either of the other two fairy wrasses from time to time just to let them know who was boss. Both Scott's now exhibited terminal phase male coloration but only the newly dominant (formerly female) fish displayed. And it displayed to both fairy wrasses, including the female Lineatus. The now submissive supermale Scott's did not even display to the much smaller female Lineatus.
Yes, I have read of that happening in several posts on this board. It seems to be quite common for some reason on other with that particular species. I tried to search for something on gender reversal in Genicanthus using Google's scholar search just now but I couldn't find anything helpful.
OK, but did you witness actual morphological change? In other words, did either fish complete sex change and achieve full supermale coloration and size and then revert back to female coloration? Or did one simply overtake the other and achieve maleness before the other one, thus halting it's progression. A Cirrhilabrus wrasse doesn't fully lose female functionality until after it's testes are mature and producing a hormone that triggers degeneration of the ovaries. So it is possible for a female to be say halfway to becoming male and then have the process halted and reversed. In this case you would expect to see it return to female coloration.
The problem with sequential hermaphroditism is that it hasn't been fully studied in all that many genera yet. I have read articles on gender determination and sex change and reversal in anthias and it's not quite the same as with fairy wrasses. Another complication is that behavior that would never happen in the wild might happen in the small confines of a captive aquarium because of the fact that the fish cannot leave the situation. In the wild, a fish that is being harassed has the option to move on. Not so in your average size aquarium. I have no idea how large the tank would have to be to allow natural behavioral patterns. For example, my situation with my two supermale Scott's would never happen in the wild because one fish would simply move on.
If anyone is keeping more than one harem of Cirrhilabrus in the same tank, I would love to know the size of the tank and what their experience has been. For example, is it possible to keep two or three separate harems in maybe a 700-gal tank? I'm not talking about separate harems of the same species, just separate harems (at least five or six fish each) of the same genus. I know someone who has a 700-gal tank with separate harems of anthias but that's not quite the same thing.
LargeAngels
Premium Member
Ninong: “They engaged in friendly carouselling (slow swimming in circles behind each other)†I see this with my solar wrasses. I have three with the male phase coloration, had a fourth but jumped out. Two of them were pretty small when I got them, but now they have all grown to about the same very large size. Every week or so I see them swimming in circles taking turns.
zemuron114
In Memoriam
I find scotts to be one of the most aggressive fairies if not the most. They just get nasty when they get big especially towards other faires added after they are established (as ninong experienced.. 
)
still a very nice fish
)still a very nice fish
MarvinsReef
In Memoriam
would like to request for pics of these guys and how big do you normally see them on aquarium setting? seems to me that they're closely related..
thanks in advance...
C. temminckii or C. balteatus
Marvin
thanks in advance...
C. temminckii or C. balteatus
Marvin
heuerfan
Active member
Hey Marvin, there are plenty of pics of these two wrasses, just gotta search
Here are some pics of the 4" Temminckii i owned, to bad the color faded........
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=761763&perpage=25&pagenumber=21
achillesheel
New member
wow thats nuts. so pretty. i saw in another thread that you have 13 lubbocks. any particular reason you have so many?
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