Falcula in QT Stopped Eating

[Dr Colliebreath]

I have had a saddleback and a falcula in quarantine since June 10. Both have eaten very well from the outset - 2 types of pellets, Rods fish only, and mysis.

I treated the tank with Cupramine from 6/26-6/30 in 3 small doses (35, 35 and 12 drops into a 37 gallon tank) and the Seachem test kit shows .3 ppm. This was precautionary only as I hadn't observed any signs of parasites on the fish.

Both fish ate aggressively on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. I was away from Saturday at noon until Monday afternoon. When I fed the fish on my return, the saddleback ate aggressively but the falcula didn't eat and hasn't eaten since. On Monday evening, I treated the tank with its first dose of PraziPro. This too was only precautionary as I hadn't observed any signs of flukes.

The falcula swims around the tank and shows no signs of distress, and its color remains normal. It comes to the front corner of the tank when I feed the fish but doesn't even try to eat. It just lets the food drift right past its nose and fall to the bottom or get eaten by the saddleback.

I know that flukes can sometimes cause a fish not to eat. The falcula shimmied 2 or 3 times after the PraziPro treatment but I saw no other signs of flukes.

I know copper can suppress a fish's appetite. How long does that last - as long as the fish is in the copper or will it start eating in a couple of days.

Do I just ride it out and hope the falcula starts eating again, or do a large water change to reduce the amount of copper in the tank, or give the tank another PraziPro treatment tomorrow or Friday and then move the falcula to the DT?

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[SkullV]

I would ride it out if the fish is fat. Fish will often not eat when medicated and should always be fattened up in QT before a prophylactic treatment.

On another note what the heck is a Falcula?

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

It is the falcula butterflyfish - http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+229&pcatid=229 .

Mine was in good shape and I had it for more than 2 weeks before I started medicating, so hopefully it will pull through. I just hate to see it not eating after it did so well until this week.

 

[geaux xman]

i would probably do a big WC now to remove the copper. i've had a tang and and angel that would eat the very next day after the removal of copper.

3-4 days of trying to feed to no avail, i would remove the possible stress factors(Cu+). BF's are pretty sensitive to copper as well. you've only dedicated a couple of weeks to the fish in QT, an additional few weeks wont be too bad. i rather that than push the issue with Cu+ and the fish not feed.

try some spirunila enchanced brine shrimp. sometimes when i have fish in Cu+ that refuse to eat, that would work.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

As I only will have had the fish in Cupramine for 9 days, is it worth dropping the salinity for a couple of weeks in the QT before putting the fish in the DT?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Just for future reference: With most fish, I take 4-5 days to bring the Cupramine level up to .50. If a fish stops eating, I make sure they eat before starting Cu, I back off the Cu (using Cuprisorb). I do everything I can to get the fish eating at .50; but Cupramine is effective (although a little less) at a lower level. I've never had a butterfly stop eating at .50 for more than a day or two. Because you haven't raised the Cu level, and the fish was eating well for 3 days, I'm not 100% sure that copper is the problem----especially at the level you're using.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

It is strange the way it won't eat because when I approach the tank to feed, the falcula tilts its mouth up and glides towards the top of the tank right into the middle of the food, but it doesn't eat and the food all but bounces off the fish while the other one eats away. I tried 3 foods tonight and pellets soaked in garlic this morning.

I hear you about the Cupramine as possibly not the cause but I am not sure what else to try. I just did a 35% water change and if the fish doesn't eat in the morning, I will put the Cuprisorb in the HOB filter to pull the rest of the Cupramine out and see whether the fish will start eating.

The falcula is the bolder of the two fish and reacted less when I did the water change. Other than not eating, it is acting normal. Hopefully, this won't be just another one in a long list of the same story - butterfly was doing fine and suddenly stopped eating and died for no apparent reason.

 

[SkullV]

It is the falcula butterflyfish - http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+229&pcatid=229 .

Mine was in good shape and I had it for more than 2 weeks before I started medicating, so hopefully it will pull through. I just hate to see it not eating after it did so well until this week.

Ah alright, when you were talking about saddleback and "Falcula" I thought you meant clownfish. I figured you were using Falcula to mean False Percula (Ocellaris).

 

[Big E]

Hopefully, this won't be just another one in a long list of the same story - butterfly was doing fine and suddenly stopped eating and died for no apparent reason.

This is quite a common problem with Indo/Phillipine collected BF's............try to avoid any of them from that source. Most of the common BF's are widspread enough that you can get them from other collection areas. You need a reputable store or internet vendor you can trust on the source.

 

[MrTuskfish]

This is quite a common problem with Indo/Phillipine collected BF's............try to avoid any of them from that source. Most of the common BF's are widspread enough that you can get them from other collection areas. You need a reputable store or internet vendor you can trust on the source.

I agree. Because there many more quality fish available now, we don't hear about the problems often enough. Cyanide collection is still a serious problem in many areas. I'm sure not making a diagnosis; but the behavior of the butterfly in this post is not unlike cyanide poisoning. BTW, a real clue to cyanide is a fish with unusually bright coloration.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I will check the fish's origin when I get home from work. I selected the source as the best combination of collection origins at the time i ordered 3 butterflies. Unfortunately, this is about the time that cyanide effects show up, isn't it.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

The falcula shows as having come from the Indian Ocean.

The longnose, which died a couple of days after arrival, was from Hawaii.

The saddleback is from Fiji.

 

[MrTuskfish]

The falcula shows as having come from the Indian Ocean.

The longnose, which died a couple of days after arrival, was from Hawaii.

The saddleback is from Fiji.

Well, the Longnose dying so quickly shoots the origin argument to hell. Longnose are much hardier than they look and there is no better source than Hawaii. Of course, the death of one fish means nothing, when it comes to origin. Any fish, from anywhere can die at anytime; I guess we all know that
I think Fiji is an excellent source. My Moorish Idols are from Fiji; LA didn't expect any Hawaiian Idols for quite a while and I didn't feel like waiting. They arrived & acclimated easily, and are thriving.
Its impossible to blame the Facula's problem on his Indian Ocean home. But this includes a huge area, with varying reputations. I.O. fish from Africa generally have a great rep; but I think "I.O." can often include parts of The Philippines & Indonesia, among many locations where cyanide collection is still commonly practiced.
This is a lot of drivel with no real answer; but a subject I don't think we discuss enough. Sadly, a cyanide caught fish can slip through anywhere; it would be impossible to police 100%. On the bright side, there defiantly are far fewer of these fish than there used to be.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Well, the Longnose dying so quickly shoots the origin argument to hell. Longnose are much hardier than they look and there is no better source than Hawaii. Of course, the death of one fish means nothing, when it comes to origin.

That is what I was thinking. :lmao:

Really though, I agree with getting fish from better sources, and I was disheartened by the quick death of the longnose. As you say, it is just one fish and Hawaii is the best source.

The falcula ate two small NLS pellets this morning and about 8 this afternoon, so we will see if it bounces back over the next couple of days. It still isn't feeding aggressively, but perhaps it will eat more as the Cupramine goes away.

The saddleback is enjoying this immensely as I have to put a lot of food in to get it full and occupied near the bottom of the tank so the falcula gets a chance to eat. Once the saddleback is full and occupied near the bottom, I found I can put a couple of pellets in and let the falcula eat them before adding a couple more. Sounds like another big water change is in the cards in a day or two.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

The fish has continued to eat well and more aggressively, so now I have to decide on what to do. The two fish have been in my QT for 4 12 weeks, 10 days of which included Cupramine. I am on my second dose of 3 or 4 PraziPro treatments.

1. Try Cupramine again in a few days. Even though it isn't certain that Cupramine was the cause of the falcula's one week hunger strike, it seems like the probable cause so I think this isn't a good option.

2. Put the falcula in the DT at 6 weeks after a fresh water dip and treat the saddleback in the QT for 2-3 weeks with Cupramine.

3. Put both in the DT at 6 weeks after a fresh water dip.

What do you think is the best course of action?

 

[MrTuskfish]

If you haven't seen any signs of parasites for 6 weeks, they should be fine. Why so much Prazi-Pro? Two treatments is usually plenty.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I have seen people post that it took 3 doses of PraziPro so I figured 3 or 4 to be safe as it appears to be benign and butterflies seem to be prone to flukes. Maybe the extra dose or two isn't worth it.

 

[marti224]

If the fish stops eating then I would stop the copper meds, and just do a fresh water bath every few days or as needed. The copper base medication is very hard on the fish, even damsels.