Few Questions for EXPERIENCED enthusiasts (pics included)

Tenshoa

New member
Hi All,

First time posting here, but have been reading and finding quite a bit of informative info so far. I have several questions, but I want to make sure I cover all bases, so my apologies for the length (although maybe the length will help weed out any trolls with pointless or useless comments.)

About me: First time getting into a reef system, although I have had previous experience with freshwater and saltwater fish (primarily Lions and Triggers). So I understand the basics.

My purchase: About 2 weeks ago, I purchased a used 29 gallon Biocube for $180. It came with the tank, stand, protein skimmer, 3 stage AquaFX RO/DI, Live rock, API Test kit, Water, Clown Fish, and miscellaneous supplies. The man who owned it before me claimed to at one time had several fish and corals in there. However, they have been gone for a while, now with only one clown remaining. He seemed as though he had done his homework in keeping the tank for the most part, so I decided to keep the existing water he had.

Immediately from purchasing the equipment from him, I drove directly to the LFS and spoke with the owner, who seemed VERY informative. In fact she had a fish who was well... trained as if it were a dog. They also maintain the tanks for Universal Studios locally. Anyway, I had them check all of the water parameters which tested fine and picked up a few more things as well. However, she wanted to wait a few days to a week before selling me any fish or corals as to ensure the stability of the water parameters.

Few days later, waters were still fine and confirmed with LFS. Purchased a Coral Beauty, 2 Zoas, a trumpet coral, and a Hairy Mushroom. I placed one zoa up high, one just a bit below, and the hairy mushroom toward the bottom. Took 1 day for the middle zoa to open, about 4 days for the higher zoa, and the hairy mushroom didn't seem to want to open. So I replaced him in another area with slightly less flow and it appears to be a little more open, but still not fully (I don't think).

Next, noticed about 25 Aiptasia emerging in tank. Decided that I wanted some peppermint shrimp for the problem. The LFS owner seemed biased and recommended aiptasia x instead. She said she wasn't a fan of peppermint shrimp. Despite her suggestion, I decided to buy one peppermint shrimp anyway just to see how it worked out (yes, I can tell the difference between a peppermint and a camel). Took the shrimp home, acclimated it, and it died about 4 hours later. Went back to the LFS, told them what happened and though they found it odd, gave me another for free. 4 hours later... dead.

I decided the next day to check out a different LFS just to keep my options open. Purchased 2 more peppermint shrimp, some aiptasia x, and a Hammer Coral. He also checked my water which appeared to be fine, though it showed slightly high alkalinity. Did a 2 gallon change upon his recommendation and lowered the Alkalinity to 8.9.

Over the next 2 days, noticed that one of the peppermint shrimp became MIA. Now I realize that they are nocturnal and hide during the day. However, my aquarium is only so big and I can see into most crevices and caves. One still remains but no sign of the other (over 5 days now). Yesterday (day and a half since last test), checked my water again and found that my Nitrates spiked to somewhere between 40 and 80. Took water to the LFS to confirm. Performed a 10 gallon water change.

In addition, I had placed the Hammer coral down low with a moderate flow. After 4 days, Hammer Coral had not yet opened. So i decided to move it to a different area with a little less flow. In the process it broke off the disk that it was attached to, and looks as though I lost some polyps as well.

Tested water again today. Everything looks great, except that the Nitrate is still between 10 and 20ppm. Hammer coral still not looking good.

Now for the questions.....

What happened to my peppermint shrimp?? The first few that died? I had removed them from the tank immediately. Out of the last 2 I bought, only 1 remains with no sign whatsoever of the other. I even lifted up a few pieces of rock. Where did it go??

Is it possible a dead shrimp was the cause of the Nitrate spike?

Will my hammer coral survive? It is down to a skeleton with about a couple dozen or so polyps showing. (see pic)

Can you suggest better spots for the corals or let me know if the placement seems okay? (see pic)

The peppermint shrimp doesn't seem to be eating the aiptasia. So I used aiptasia x on most of it. Some of them appeared to be greater than 1" in diameter. Is it possible that this caused a spike?

Is it possible for an aiptasia to eat a shrimp??

What is the best way to tell what the flow is like in a certain part of the tank?

There is a tiny tiny starfish that I see every now and then on the glass. It has 5 legs, all of which appear equal in length. What is it? How large will it get?

What is the maximum amount of fish you would put in this tank? I would like to add one more. Possibly a Royal Gramma.


Some other facts to preemptively answer some of your questions:

I do not overfeed my fish. I give a quarter of one piece of frozen mysis shrimp in the morning, which they eat completely in less than 15 seconds. and maybe a tiny pinch of pellets at night, which they also eat completely within seconds.

I do have 4 hermit crabs who occasionally crawl on top of my zoas. Although I've never actually seen them do any harm.

I have never seen my Coral Beauty nip at any of the corals.

Tests performed regularly: PH, Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Alkalinity.

Water temp is 77.7 degrees

Both fish look and swim healthy. In fact, I they are always hungry, rushing to the top when I open the lid. I worry that I'm underfeeding them sometimes.


Thank you all in advance!
 

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Nice writeup. What are the parameters and which test kits used? API test kits are no good for a reef tank. Fish only, yes. But not for the reef.

Peppermint shrimp requires pristine water quality. And I mean it. Zero nitrates, very low phosphates, not to mention any ammonia or nitrite spikes. The fact that you had 1'' aiptasia growing in the tank within few weeks suggests that there is a ton of nutrients in the water, nitrates specifically. There is no way shrimp would survive 20ppm+ nitrates. Chances are the nitrates were actually much higher.

Hammer coral won't live long in high nitrates/phosphates either. Fix it fast or it will not recover.

The tiny starfish is probably asterina starfish? look it up. If it is, it can eat zoas, better to be removed.

Aiptasia won't be able to eat the shrimp. It's not that strong.

Dead shrimp certainly causes a nitrate spike as it contributes to the nitrogen cycle. Same with dead aiptasia. In a tank that small, the spike is more noticeable.
 
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I'm not gonna lie I'm fairly new to the hobby but I do know you should fix the current issues before you even think about adding any more fish or corals.
 
Nice writeup. What are the parameters and which test kits used?

peppermint shrimp requires pristine water quality. And I mean it. Zero nitrates, very low phosphates, not to mention any ammonia or nitrite spikes. The fact that you had 1'' aiptasia growing in the tank within few weeks suggests that there is a ton of nutrients in the water, nitrates specifically. There is no way shrimp would survive 20ppm+ nitrates. Chances are the nitrates were actually much higher.

Hammer coral won't live long in high nitrates/phosphates either. Fix it fast or it will not recover.

The tiny starfish is probably asterina starfish? look it up. If it is, it can eat zoas, better to be removed.

Both time I purchased the peppermint shrimp and hammer coral, the Nitrates were at 0. I tested it using an API test kit and also had the LFS check it for congruence. Nitrites were at 0, PH WAS at 7.8 but is now 8.2 (I was told to leave the lid open occasionally to release the carbon dioxide since this supresses PH). Ammonia was at 0 at the time of purchase as well, and alkalinity at 8.9.

As for the aptasia, I assume that they were there prior to me purchasing the setup and that the previous owner just got lazy.

The Nitrate spike HAD to have occurred between Tuesday Night and Thursday morning since on Tuesday it was 0. I performed a 10 gallon water change yesterday and as of this morning, Nitrite is 0, PH is 8.2, Ammonia is 0, Alkalinity is 8.0, and Nitrate is about 10+ but less than 20.

So you think the hammer still has the potential to recover?
 
What happened to my peppermint shrimp?? The first few that died? I had removed them from the tank immediately. Out of the last 2 I bought, only 1 remains with no sign whatsoever of the other. I even lifted up a few pieces of rock. Where did it go??

If you have any CUC(clean up crew)like bristle worms,hermit crabs or nassarius snail,thay could have eaten it.

Is it possible a dead shrimp was the cause of the Nitrate spike?

Yes,anything that adds nutrients to the water will cause nitrate to rise.

Will my hammer coral survive? It is down to a skeleton with about a couple dozen or so polyps showing. (see pic)

I can't see the picture here at work.

Can you suggest better spots for the corals or let me know if the placement seems okay? (see pic)

The peppermint shrimp doesn't seem to be eating the aiptasia. So I used aiptasia x on most of it. Some of them appeared to be greater than 1" in diameter. Is it possible that this caused a spike?

Very unlikely

Is it possible for an aiptasia to eat a shrimp??

Also very unlikely

What is the best way to tell what the flow is like in a certain part of the tank?
Feed and watch where the food goes

There is a tiny tiny starfish that I see every now and then on the glass. It has 5 legs, all of which appear equal in length. What is it? How large will it get?
Asteria stars(most are harmless)
But,I have seen some eating zoa polyps.

What is the maximum amount of fish you would put in this tank? I would like to add one more. Possibly a Royal Gramma.

I would probably go with 5 small fish.
 
Also, what test kit for a reef would you recommend, if not API? One LFS was using API test kits as well and the other Salifert.
 
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See my update on test kits. Salifert and Red sea both make very good kits for this hobby. You will need a low range nitrate test, alkalinity, magnesium and calcium tests. Also, make sure to get a phosphate test kit. For phosphates specifically, hanna makes the best digital checker with salifert being the second best test kit.

Hammer doesn't look good from the pictures posted, but if immediately put in really clean tank it has a good chance. Soft corals are much better at bouncing back compared to sps stuff.

Nitrates don't just rise overnight. It's not a slow process but not a fast one either. Nitrates going from zero to 40-80 overnight is almost impossible, even in a 30g tank. They were there before, that is for sure.

I am still using API nitrate kit every once in a great while and I know shaking that #2 bottle for 30 seconds as suggested is a crucial step and cannot be omited. Otherwise, the test will come back at a zero in a 40ppm+ sample water...

One reason why you have/had such high nitrates were probably due to stirring up sand and rock when you got the tank. Usually the recommended procedure is to get all new sand, clean the rock thoroughly before placing in new tank and seed the new sand with just a cup of original live sand from the old setup.
 
See my update on test kits.

Hammer doesn't look good from the pictures posted, but if immediately put in really clean tank it has a good chance. Soft corals are much better at bouncing back compared to sps stuff.

Nitrates don't just rise overnight. It's not a slow process but not a fast one either. Nitrates going from zero to 40-80 overnight is almost impossible, even in a 30g tank. They were there before, that is for sure.

I am still using API nitrate kit every once in a great while and I know shaking that #2 bottle for 30 seconds as suggested is a crucial step and cannot be omited. Otherwise, the test will come back at a zero in a 40ppm+ sample water...

One reason why you have/had such high nitrates were probably due to stirring up sand and rock when you got the tank. Usually the recommended procedure is to get all new sand, clean the rock thoroughly before placing in new tank and seed the new sand with just a cup of original live sand from the old setup.

I don't have another place to put him. What would you suggest? Is 10-15 Nitrate still too high to bounce back from?

I stand corrected, one LFS used Salifert tests to test my water. My Alk test is also a Salifert. I purchased the hammer and shrimp on Monday. Both my test kit and the LFS test kit showed that everything was fine. Tuesday I checked it again. And Thursday would have been 2 days later.

And yes, I am adamant about shaking that damn test and tube. LOL

When I took stopped at he LFS on my way home from purchasing the setup, I added another bag of sand, but left the initial sand in there. Does this help?
 
I'd say get a good nitrate/phosphate test kit, do a large water change to bring nitrates under 5ppm, put the coral in there and see what happens. Do nitrate and phosphate test daily for a week or so and adjust water quality as necessary. The placement of the coral is secondary in this situation. Just make sure it's not under direct blast from any powerheads.

Your nitrates and phosphates will keep going up for quite a while. Mostly due to feeding and substrate/rocks releasing what it accumulated over time back into water. Keep up with your water changes and it will eventually get better.

Oh, and do keep that aiptasia under control with aiptasiaX.
 
I'd say get a good nitrate/phosphate test kit, do a large water change to bring nitrates under 5ppm, put the coral in there and see what happens. Do nitrate and phosphate test daily for a week or so and adjust water quality as necessary. The placement of the coral is
secondary in this situation. Just make sure it's not under direct blast from any powerheads.

Your nitrates and phosphates will keep going up for quite a while. Mostly due to feeding and substrate/rocks releasing what it accumulated over time back into water. Keep up with your water changes and it will eventually get better.

Thank you for the info.

Since I just did a 10 gallon water change yesterday, when should I do another? And how much?

Also, is it possible that since I killed about 15 aiptasia on Monday night, combined with a dead shrimp, that the Nitrate could have spiked in that short amount of time?
 
if you have 20ppm in 30g of water, 15g WC will bring it down to 10ppm, right? So do the math.

It's ok to do a very large water change because your corals are still adjusting to a huge nitrate spike anyway, so it's not like it will be a shock. So do the WC as soon as you can.

I have never experienced a 80ppm nitrate spike in such a short period of time. Dead shrimp and aiptasia certainly contributed to it, but they alone were not the only factor. I'm betting that the stirred up sandbed and rock caused a minicycle which killed your shrimp and raised nitrates that high.
 
After moving and rearranging the tank you should still treat it like a completely new system. The tank may or may not cycle again but either way your biological filter is going to be very week at first your levels might not stablize for weeks or longer ... lots of things may have changed chemistry wise (source water, salt mix brand, suppliments etc) all these things will eventually come to a balance.

If it were my tank I would hold off on adding anything for a month and focus on killing those aiptasia's it will be much easier before you have a tank full of corals.

Lastly if you are going to lose new livestock it will normally be in the first day or two.
 
if you have 20ppm in 30g of water, 15g WC will bring it down to 10ppm, right? So do the math.

It's ok to do a very large water change because your corals are still adjusting to a huge nitrate spike anyway, so it's not like it will be a shock. So do the WC as soon as you can.

I have never experienced a 80ppm nitrate spike in such a short period of time. Dead shrimp and aiptasia certainly contributed to it, but they alone were not the only factor. I'm betting that the stirred up sandbed and rock caused a minicycle which killed your shrimp and raised nitrates that high.

Right, but I thought maybe 15 gallons was a little much at one time and would stress everything out.

Keep in mind, I don't know that it was as high as 80. But somewhere in between. The color matching gets a little difficult at a certain point, to determine.
 
I'd say its pretty cut and dry to me. You had a mini cycle from moving the tank or there was something perhaps dead or dying in the rock. Your nitrates went up which shrimp are for the most part completely intolerant of which in return killed them as well. Crabs probably cleaned up the one you can't find. I would suggest a couple things.


A. Dont try and use peppermint shrimp for aptaisa. They're just to hit or miss. I've personally never had any luck with them.

B. I personally think API kits are perfectly fine. Thats all I use. I'll never buy $40 test kits to know my nitrates are .00000027 its not worth my time or money or the hype when I can use an API kit which is very easy to use and does the job just fine. If I can use a kit and get an idea of what my parameters are then I already know what adjustments to make. This is just my personal opinion though, not looking for an argument but I think you're perfectly fine using API kits. Thousands of reefers use them. But then again once you get to know your tank well enough then most people dont even need test kits they can look at their tank and know if somethings wrong.


C. Quit adding more shrimp. You're just stressing out your tank and obviously they're not working out for you. Its doing more damage than good.
 
I'd say its pretty cut and dry to me. You had a mini cycle from moving the tank or there was something perhaps dead or dying in the rock. Your nitrates went up which shrimp are for the most part completely intolerant of which in return killed them as well. Crabs probably cleaned up the one you can't find. I would suggest a couple things.


A. Dont try and use peppermint shrimp for aptaisa. They're just to hit or miss. I've personally never had any luck with them.

B. I personally think API kits are perfectly fine. Thats all I use. I'll never buy $40 test kits to know my nitrates are .00000027 its not worth my time or money or the hype when I can use an API kit which is very easy to use and does the job just fine. If I can use a kit and get an idea of what my parameters are then I already know what adjustments to make. This is just my personal opinion though, not looking for an argument but I think you're perfectly fine using API kits. Thousands of reefers use them. But then again once you get to know your tank well enough then most people dont even need test kits they can look at their tank and know if somethings wrong.


C. Quit adding more shrimp. You're just stressing out your tank and obviously they're not working out for you. Its doing more damage than good.

I would have thought that I would have seen the effects of a mini cycle sooner than a week.

I won't be adding anymore shrimp at this point since I broke down and bought the aiptasia x anyway. I just didn't want to go through the hassle of having to remove rocks and corals every time one appeared in an area that I couldn't otherwise get to.

My thought, at the time, for adding more shrimp was that after the first one died, maybe a fluke situation. After the second, maybe the batch of shrimp at that store, so I tried a different store instead. Espcially since at the time, both LFS's AND my test kit all showed that the water was fine.
 
That seems to be ok.
Some folks acclimate WAY too long.But that's just about what I do also.
I've lost peppermints for no reason what so ever.Three year old ,well maintained tank.
Acclimate and realease and never see the shrimp again.

You are much better off with the aptasiaX than pepermints anyways.
I have had one aptasia in the life of my tank and knocked it out with that product.Never had another one show it's ugly head.
 
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