Few Questions for EXPERIENCED enthusiasts (pics included)

[Paul B]

First of all, welcome to the site.
You asked for opinions from experienced aquarists so I will offer a few of my opinions.
I have no idea why your shrimp died but you did use the existing water from the previous owner. I am thinking ammonia even though I know what you said about your ammonia test. I am sure you kniow that many peppermint shrimp are not really peppermint shrimp and are not tropical, but we can't tell from here. The fact that your nitrates went up so high overnight tells me that either your test kits were not used correctly, or they don't work.
Your hammer coral is probably history, sorry. Your hermit crabs most likely ate your peppermint shrimp. Nitrates will not kill a peppermint shrimp or a hammer coral.
The nitrates on my 42 year old reef are about 40 and hammar corals are growing all over the place along with dozens of shrimp and have been for decades.
Aiptasia came from the previous owners tank and they are not caused by anything. They are hitch hikers on rocks and corals.
I believe your tank was much to new to add any lifestock in even though it was inhabited by the old owner. Or so he said.
Those are my opinions, have fun and good luck.
Paul

 

[Tenshoa]

First of all, welcome to the site.
You asked for opinions from experienced aquarists so I will offer a few of my opinions.
I have no idea why your shrimp died but you did use the existing water from the previous owner. I am thinking ammonia even though I know what you said about your ammonia test. I am sure you kniow that many peppermint shrimp are not really peppermint shrimp and are not tropical, but we can't tell from here. The fact that your nitrates went up so high overnight tells me that either your test kits were not used correctly, or they don't work.
Your hammer coral is probably history, sorry. Your hermit crabs most likely ate your peppermint shrimp. Nitrates will not kill a peppermint shrimp or a hammer coral.
The nitrates on my 42 year old reef are about 40 and hammar corals are growing all over the place along with dozens of shrimp and have been for decades.
Aiptasia came from the previous owners tank and they are not caused by anything. They are hitch hikers on rocks and corals.
I believe your tank was much to new to add any lifestock in even though it was inhabited by the old owner. Or so he said.
Those are my opinions, have fun and good luck.
Paul

Thanks for your info, Paul. What has dumbfounded me is that, I had a second test done at each of the fish stores, just to make sure that mine weren't inaccurate or improperly done, or maybe just old.

As for the previous owner, you are correct. There's no real way to tell. Although the Clown Fish came with the setup and the only thing I have left to go by is the miscellaneous supplies, foods and buffers (which I have not used any of) as to determine what he had going on in there.

I read somewhere that northern peppermint shrimp do not eat aiptasia because aiptasia does not exist north of the Caribbean. And that in order to have any luck with the shrimp, that they need to have been FROM the Caribbean. Is there any truth to that?

What occurs between the takedown and setup from one place to another to not make it viable for adding any livestock or considering it new? Other than stirring up any nutrients that may have been buried in the sand?

How long should I wait to determine whether or not to ditch the hammer coral before it is certain that it won't make it?

I attached one more picture of it in it's current state.

 

[Paul B]

I read somewhere that northern peppermint shrimp do not eat aiptasia because aiptasia does not exist north of the Caribbean. And that in order to have any luck with the shrimp, that they need to have been FROM the Caribbean. Is there any truth to that?

I don't really know if they come from north of the Caribbean, good question but peppermint shrimp do not always eat aiptasia, nor do copperband butterflies.
If it is on just one rock, remove the rock and scrub the thing off with a toothbrush or remove the rock and pour a little aquarium salt on it. They hate that and will turn into snot in a few seconds.

What occurs between the takedown and setup from one place to another to not make it viable for adding any livestock or considering it new?

The tank is full of bacteria, simply some of them live in oxygen and some prefer to live with no oxygen. When you move a tank and disturb the rocks and substrait, the living conditions for the bacteria change. Moving rocks and sand will allow oxygen to get into areas where anerobic bacteria who don't like oxygen live and may kill them. That would cause a jump in your nitrate because it's the oxygen hating bacteria that control that. I am not saying that is what happened in your tank as I can't see it from here. It could be any number of things. A couple of peppermint dying in there should not raise the nitrate that high.

How long should I wait to determine whether or not to ditch the hammer coral before it is certain that it won't make it?

I would not ditch it yet. There is a small chance it will recover but probably not in your tank as we don't know what is killing it and we didn't fix anything. They usually die slowly but if you see that it is mostly skeleton, take it out.
I would imagine you have enough light for it but I don't know.
It's only a 29 gallon tank, change the water as you don't know what the owner did to it or if it was ever changed. I am not a big fan of changing water but in your case with unknown water with a tank full of dying animals I think it is safe to say, change the water.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Nice to see Paul B. back! Sandy, I assume.

When you buy someone's tank set-up; the previous owner's problems are thrown in too. If you don't quarantine all new fish; sooner or later, you'll have a major parasite problem.

I never understand why buyers of used set-ups move the water; often they think it 'saves' the tanks cycle. It doesn't; the bacteria that 'cycle" the tank are in the LR, substrate, etc.; not in the water column.

 

[Paul B]

Sandy, I assume

Sandy was the problem

 

[ACBlinky]

I have a thought... you said the tank had ONLY the clown, and rock & sand when you bought it. Is there any chance the previous owner used any medications, specifically anything containing copper, in the tank? Even if he/you used carbon, polyfilter, or some other method to remove it, small residual amounts of copper or certain other meds could be enough to distress or kill the inverts (coral and shrimp). Hermits are tough as nails, so are aiptasia; they may be able to survive where other things perish, if there are just traces of something toxic.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Sandy was the problem

That stinks. I lost house, office building and all my personal property to Katrina. Left town with two kids, a few suitcases, computer and business files, and two dogs. The only thing that really upset us were the fish. Were you able to save your 40 yr old reef?

To the OP---sorry for the side track.

 

[Paul B]

. I lost house, office building and all my personal property to Katrina.

That stinks more. I had no power for 4 days but I have a generator that I ran every 4 hours because there was no gas. My tank went down to the high 60s but it was fine.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I never understand why buyers of used set-ups move the water; often they think it 'saves' the tanks cycle. It doesn't; the bacteria that 'cycle" the tank are in the LR, substrate, etc.; not in the water column.

x2 old water should have been ditched
this is a small aquarium...
remove rock and take care of Aiptasia

 

[Anemone]

First of all, welcome to the site.
You asked for opinions from experienced aquarists so I will offer a few of my opinions.
I have no idea why your shrimp died but you did use the existing water from the previous owner. I am thinking ammonia even though I know what you said about your ammonia test. I am sure you kniow that many peppermint shrimp are not really peppermint shrimp and are not tropical, but we can't tell from here. The fact that your nitrates went up so high overnight tells me that either your test kits were not used correctly, or they don't work.
Your hammer coral is probably history, sorry. Your hermit crabs most likely ate your peppermint shrimp. Nitrates will not kill a peppermint shrimp or a hammer coral.
The nitrates on my 42 year old reef are about 40 and hammar corals are growing all over the place along with dozens of shrimp and have been for decades.
Aiptasia came from the previous owners tank and they are not caused by anything. They are hitch hikers on rocks and corals.
I believe your tank was much to new to add any lifestock in even though it was inhabited by the old owner. Or so he said.
Those are my opinions, have fun and good luck.
Paul

Thanks Paul, as I was reading the thread I was hoping someone would chime in about the nitrates. I agree completely: nitrates didn't kill the shrimp, and probably aren't killing the hammer. Like Paul, I've had much higher nitrates than that without issues with shrimp or hardier "dirty water" corals (and LPS corals like hammers tend to like dirtier water than SPS corals).

I also agree that in moving the tank you set up a situation where you probably killed some of the biofilter bacteria, plus you added a significant bioload all at once in a fairly small tank, both of which can combine to produce a mini-cycle. Personally, I wouldn't do huge water changes, but I would do a series of smaller water changes (like 5 gallons at a time), every other day or so if any of your levels get out of whack (like any ammonia or nitrite reading, or nitrate over 20ish, but that's just me).

And I agree, your nitrate didn't jump from zero to 40-80 overnight, so don't know what happened there.

Did either of your LFSs test for copper? A low level of copper could affect different inverts differently, including killing some. And, IME, shrimp are very sensitive to poor acclimation. Shrimp dead in 4 hours screams acclimation shock (at least to me).

I didn't notice if you mentioned your lighting; what is is? And what lighting were the corals under at the LFS? Light shock can cause a hammer to pull in like that.

At this point, patience is your best ally, IMO. Monitor, and do small water changes as needed, but don't add anymore livestock or change anything for several weeks.

FWIW,
Kevin

 

[Stomkat]

I too am not an experienced reefer, have done a lot of reading, but still consider myself a noob.

I would have used the person's water if I could and tested levels as soon as it was set up, then daily thereafter with plans to do WC once a week to acclimate the tank to my own water.

Treat the tank as a new set up and expect a cycle from moving everything. Stuff is going to die from being moved, being exposed, etc. Test at least every other day ... I'm obsessive when I'm starting something and would be testing daily. I wouldn't add anything new for a month ... longer if it's still cycling and/or water params are still out of whack.

You have no idea how old the bulbs are in the light system, I would assume anything I buy used needs new bulbs. Could be contributing to the coral dying. You don't state what lighting system came with it.

I think you said a RODI unit came with it. Again, I would assume at least some ... if not all ... filters in it need to be changed.

If someone is selling their system, assume they lost interest. When you lose interest you leave things in neglect and stop normal upkeep and maintenance. This leaves the buyer with the job of correcting things that have/are going wrong and replacing worn/expired items.

Just take it slow, replace lights and filters, test test test, and do partial water changes once a week (or more often if something is at dangerous levels).

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm a very experienced reefkeeper.

To suggest keeping 29 gallons of "old" water that came with a "turnkey system" makes no sense to me. People often get out of reefkeeping when things go wrong. Oftentimes, bad decisions (copper treatments etc., who knows what) have been made with a pre-enjoyed reef aquarium.

It's very difficult to quantify everything in seawater with manmade tests... whether it's natural seawater or artificial seawater... and I wouldn't rely on tests from a LFS... purchase your own.
The purchase of a turnkey system is DEFINITELY the time to do a large proper water change IMO/IME.

While the system is still new go after Aiptasia if they're present. Remove rock as necessary. DON'T rely on Aiptasia predators. Nip the problem in the bud.

The lighting didn't kill the coral or the shrimp here- it's in the water.
It's too soon to add animals IMO.

Purchase your own test kits. A LFS makes money on every animal they sell.

 

[Anemone]

I'm not a particularly inexperienced reefkeeper either.

I'd just like to point out that the coral isn't dead (yet), just retracted. And no one said lighting might have killed the shrimp.

And I agree on the aiptasia. Use the aiptasia x and kill them now - don't wait.

Kevin

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Kevin- you know that I know that YOU know what you're talking about.

We just have a different approach

I say the heck with Aiptasia X. Yank that rock out NOW and torch those Aiptasia NOW or it will be a never ending battle.

I hope I'm wrong, but the Euphyllia in the pic already looks like a goner to me.
The only way it might possibly recover is if it were placed in an established reef aquarium and given special care by a knowledgable reefkeeper... and even THEN it might already be too late.

Regarding peppermint shrimps: there are two different Lysmata commonly sold as... and I'm not referring to Camel imposters.
There's a Pacific type that (if memory serves me right) is larger than the Atlantic type. I believe it's the Atlantic ones that prefer the taste of Aiptasia.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DavidinGA]

I would attempt to ask the previous owner some more questions. specifically if he every medicated the tank...

Sent by Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Tapatalk 2

 

[Paul B]

I hope I'm wrong, but the Euphyllia in the pic already looks like a goner to me.

I think so also but I didn't want to seem like there was no hope.

I'm not a particularly inexperienced reefkeeper either.

You guys are experienced as well as I am. Me and Lincoln, Abe to his friends, would sit around and discuss things like ozonizers and skimmers.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

EVERYBODY here knows that YOU are experienced, Paul.
Good to see you're around... that storm... so terrible.

I would attempt to ask the previous owner some more questions. specifically if he every medicated the tank

too late now AND (IME) useless even if asked before purchase.

 

[Paul B]

EVERYBODY here knows that YOU are experienced

Are you calling me old? :sad1:

 

[Anemone]

Are you calling me old? :sad1:

No, just well seasoned!

Kevin

 

[Anemone]

I hope I'm wrong, but the Euphyllia in the pic already looks like a goner to me.

I agree as well. Unfortunately, when Euphyllias get to looking like that, they're usually done. That being said, it could make it (stranger things have happened), and I learned long ago to never throw any old skeletons away, because occasionally you'll end up with a baby growing out of a "dead" skeleton.

Kevin