Fish dissapearing, Mantis???

[BigVic]

My FOWLR and live sand was cycling for 2 1/2 months, the last 2 weeks I added 2 damsels just to keep cycling. But one day at a time they dissapeared, I meant no trace of them at all. I didn't think nothing of it at first, but I just got my first order of fish and I got 5 Percula Clowns. They day after there were only 4, then the day after that only 3. Now I'm worrying. Do I have a mantis or a crab? When I first got LR uncured, I placed them on a bucket and made it very salty to try to get anything out of there. I got some very small worms out, but nothing else, I checked the holes and didn't see anything, then placed the LR on the main tank to cycle.
What can it be? How can I tell if I have a mantis and where? And If i do; How can I catch it? HELPPP Please. Thanks. :mad2:

 

[phdezra]

I assume you are talking about your 265 gal tank?

Well, IMHO, no matter how high the salinity you dipped the rocks in, some evil creatures might have stayed.

Did you check under the rocks (if possible) for a spot where the dead fish might have been blown by a current? If not, I'm not sure who would be snatching them up one at a time and devouring the WHOLE thing in one night. Do you have Nassarius snails, hermit crabs, etc? They are quick to consumer dead fish.

Bottom line, given the pattern of one fish dying per night, it sounds like you have a nasty guy in there. Stay up one night with a little red light, and look when the lights are off in house. Something is lurking.... and at this rate, you might have an awfully large Mantis soon!

 

[lilswanwillow]

if you don't hear clicking noises in the rock, and you haven't been missing any snails, its either NOT a mantis, or its a Spearer type, which many, MANY people will give you money for... they burrow in sand, so look around the bases of your rock for burrows dug.
and what your saying it eats, it'll be a big one!!!!! so think, hole about 2 inches in diameter.... maybe more, maybe less...
probably at least 2 inches though....

but, since these are RARLEY brought in on LR because of the simple fact that they don't live in the rock....
its probably not a mantis
unless you got it in the sand, which would be crazy cool!!!

 

[lilswanwillow]

oops, forgot

oops, forgot

instead of doing high salinity dips, just do freshwater dips... drop the rock in a bucket for about 2 minutes...
thats how long it took George to shoot out when I was trying to get him outta the tank one day...
just have a net ready!!!!

and nothing on the rock died. I was either lucky, or I got it back into the salt water fast enough. and now, the coraline is growing better than EVER... kinda weird, huh?

 

[Geri]

I tried the fw dip and did half my rock trying to get my mantis and to no luck :/ I didnt see it come out. The rock i saw it in i let sit in fw for like 5 mins and it never came out Not sure what else to do right now.

 

[BigVic]

So far I haven't lost any more fish, but I still haven't seen the ones I lost. By the way I don't have any snails. I got 2 CAmel shrimps, Would it be a possibility that maybe the ate them after they died behind one of the rocks? If this is what happen!!!, because I'm still worry about the fact that when I was cycling the tank with the 2 Damsels and they dissapeared I had no Shrimps in there. I'd been up the past 2 nights with a flashlight trying to find something but I haven't seen anything, no clicking noises either. What's a Burrow? Thanks.

 

[Geri]

A burrow is like a hole in the sand that a mantis or whatnot would dig to live in. You know kinna like a gopher hole?

 

[lilswanwillow]

Geri, if you can SEE your mantis, then you could try to tempt him out with food, or you could put the rock in a little tank and keep him
well, if you DO have a bashing type of mantis, your shrimps would have been killed...
I don't know if the spearer would go after them, but we could wait til someone with a spearer replies and see what they think.

Seriously, the odds of you getting a mantis is slim, and the odds of you getting a spearer is about 1/1000 people that get ANY mantis....
and since it doesn't sound like you have a mantis, I'd start looking for other nasties...
there ARE other things that could be living in your rock that you don't know about.
someone had a big worm in his tank, lemme look for the link...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152249&highlight=big+worm

ick, huh?
now, if there was something like that eating fish in your tank.... hmmm

 

[BigVic]

Oh boy, I guess I have to start looking in the sand also for whatever it is, if anything, that's taking my fish. Would it be outside the burrow or inside the sand(burrow) so you can't see it?

 

[Geri]

No i SEEN him yesterday watched him crawl around his rock for bout 5 mins or so before i got to creeped out to stand it. And I had been wondering what it was for bout a month cause id always hear clicking, and half my snails have ended up missing. I found out why my fish did not like the left half of my tank (thats where i found it). I can only assume that hes the one that got my firefish. But no my pepermint shrimp lives on that side of the tank and its still alive so either its being fed really well or theres no interest *sigh* This is so aggrivating

 

[lilswanwillow]

BigVic, they usually stay inside the burrow, so look really good at holes in the rock and the sand...
especially look for little piles of sand.
but I still don't think you have a mantis... see previous thread I posted, its ICKY

Geri, your actually lucky...
if you know where it is and you can't get it out, you can hand feed it and keep it well fed. that will drastically cut down on how much expensive stuff it eats. My mantis will only eat as much as he can... if hes fed every day, he'll starve himself when hes not hungry. PLUS he'll get used to you feeding him, which will make it easier in the long run to get rid of... unless he grows on you, then you might just set up a little nano for him!!!!

 

[lilswanwillow]

as an afterthought

as an afterthought

my mantis is with a damsel, and the damsel steals food from george, and they sleep next to eachother in the same big rock...
so who knows?...

 

[Geri]

My question is, if he was in the rock i took out to fw dip, and the fw dip didnt phase him are the chances that he is still in the same rock? I was thinking bout just pulling out that rock and putting it in my fuge for now till i can find it a home. I heard him clicking earlier so I know hes still in the tank somewhere. This is rather quite aggrivting heh cause i dont want to get anymore fish or corals till i can get this one out. :/

 

[lilswanwillow]

chances are, hes still there...
put it in the fuge, and see in a few where the clicking is coming from...
if its the fuge, you got him

 

[Geri]

well i put the rock i seen him in in the fuge so we shall see.. wish me luck lol

 

[BigVic]

I hope you catch him, Geri. Keep us post it. Update on my tank, so far nothing else it's missing. Should I still worry?

 

[Geri]

Thanks BigVic, So far I havent heard any clicking at all since I moved that rock so not sure what to think yet.

I know I would worry, I had no idea i had a mantis till a month after I had my LR in the tank and a fish dissapeared too. no trace of it at all. I heard no clicking realy till after that fish dissapeared then I heard it, guess cause i actually paid attention for the sound. I turned off all pumps and ph's and listened and knew right away, but it was a toss up between a pistol shrimp and a mantis because I had only lost one fish so far. Bleh this is so frustrating!

 

[BigVic]

I know it's frustrating, I'm going to try shuting everything off, even though I haven't heard any clicking at all. How loud it's the clicking? and What time should I be looking or hearing for this clicking? Like I said everything seen fine now, but like you said you had no idea until after a month. Hopefully it's nothing and the fish just died somewhere by the rocks and I just didn't see them.
I got 2 camel shrimps, Could there be a possibility that maybe they ate the fish clean after the fish died?

 

[Geri]

I wouldnt know that answer but i guess its possible any scavangers on the rock got it (not sure tho) :/

Clicking is loud enough to know you've got something in there thats for sure. Sorta sounds like someone clicking two rocks together underwater or something like that. Mostly at night and after i feed the tank is when id hear mine the most.

 

[RUFISHY2]

BigVic,

I wouldn't automatically assume I had a mantis. Not to say you shouldn't always be on the lookout for predators. (Shameface crabs, are much more common, look for the red eyes) I would first look at the fish I put in. How long did they last, how were they transported, were there any social issues that stressed them out. My bet is that they just died. You would be suprised at how fast bacteria alone can just erase a dead fish from existance. Still, if you've got as much live rock as you should have in a 265 gallon tank, the chances that you have a predator of sime kind lurking in there are really, really, dang good.