Flame Angel w/ ich

GT350pwns

New member
I've been playing Russian roulette, and there was a bullet in the last chamber.

My flame angel is the last fish I planned on adding to my system. Well, he came down with ich yesterday.

My question being, will a 10 gallon QT be big enough to hold all 5 of my fish (2 clowns, flame angel, hi fin red banded goby, YWG) for the hyposalinity treatment? I know they may not be happy about it, but I don't think I have any other options. I might be able to set up a second 10 gallon in a couple of weeks, but it isn't a feasible option RIGHT NOW. If I need a second, I guess I can do my absolute best to squeeze it in. I just don't want there being any issues with aggression in a cramped space OR ammonia problems.

The hospital tank probably won't be ready to go up until Friday. Which, is not the best of circumstances, but it's the best I can do at the moment.

I can get PVC so the gobies can have places to hide and a couple of flower pots to help make the clowns and angel a bit more comfortable.

Does the checklist below look ok for the hospital tank?

-AC50 filter
-floss
-ammonia detoxifying filter media
-carbon
-heater
-PVC piping (couple of bends, couple of straight pieces)
-2 or 3 flower pots


Another question:

Can I run an antibiotic treatment in conjunction to hyposalinity for my YWG who I was planning on pulling out of the tank to treat for an infected wound?
 
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lagatbezan

New member
I would look into the tank transfer method instead of the hypo. Hypo is very hard to do properly and the margin of error on it is really high.
 

GT350pwns

New member
tank transfer seems super tedious / expensive lol. No one around here really gets into fish so there aren't any local deals on used set ups..

I also lack an RODI unit and feel that hauling/buying 20 gallons of salt per day is completely unfeasible.

Should I just treat with copper (cupramine)?
 
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jimmyj7090

aka John K
There is no simple, easy way out of the situation you are in. Tank transfer is probably the easiest option (and you change the water/tank every 3 days, not everyday).
 

GT350pwns

New member
^still isn't super feasible. I am still missing a couple of pieces for the 20 gallon I have and I definitely can't afford another whole set up to do tank transfer.

I've been reading that cupramine is a viable treatment for dwarf angels. I'm debating taking that leap and see what happens. Hopefully my 5 fishy friends will get along in a 20 gallon for a few weeks.
 
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jimmyj7090

aka John K
You've got to keep them there for 10-12 weeks min before the display will be clear.

One of the nice things about tank transfer is that it's not too hard to maintain livable water quality when you are doing %100 water changes every three days. Also the weather is warming up so you may not need heaters at all (fluxuations arent' great, but my home is steady in the mid 70s all the time, this time of year).
 

lagatbezan

New member
using cupramine is a better option then hypo but keep in mind that it could be really stressful on the fish and that you are still probably going to need to do water changes to keep ammonia in check. you can NOT use prime with cupramine.
my last attempt to use cupramine with a flame angel was a failure.
If there is a petco near you, they usually have $1/g sales where you can get a 20g tank for $20. get a powerhead and a heater and you are looking at $60 max.
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
My first choice is always tank transfer as a fool proof way of eradicating ich. My last choice, due to the odds of execution being so poor, would be hypo. If you are going to be in this hobby long term, you will need the proper tools to eradicate parasites.
 

GT350pwns

New member
I guess i'll see how he holds up for a couple of weeks, hope that the other fish remain unaffected and try TT method.

If they hold up fine against any other outbreaks would a set of 10 gallons be sufficient or would ammonia become too much to bear in a 48-72 hr period?
 
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snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
I guess i'll see how he holds up for a couple of weeks, hope that the other fish remain unaffected and try TT method.

If they hold up fine against any other outbreaks would a set of 10 gallons be sufficient or would ammonia become too much to bear in a 48-72 hr period?

With tank transfer, since no chemicals are involved, everyone uses Prime or equivalent to neutralize ammonia. With copper, you cannot use an ammonia neutralizer.
 

GT350pwns

New member
Assuming you use an ammonia neutralizer, it should not be a worry.

thanks a ton. not excited about the 8-12 week fallow time. but, i've become attached to my swimming buddies and don't want to see them go. whether it be to a new home or the big reef in the sky!


The sticky for tank transfer isn't really clear on here, unless I've been reading the wrong thread. What exactly is protocol? Do I need to wait until one fish is showing symptoms and the spots drop off, switch tanks, wait 3 days, switch again. Or just switch every 3 days for 4 weeks even if the fish are asymptomatic?
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
thanks a ton. not excited about the 8-12 week fallow time. but, i've become attached to my swimming buddies and don't want to see them go. whether it be to a new home or the big reef in the sky!


The sticky for tank transfer isn't really clear on here, unless I've been reading the wrong thread. What exactly is protocol? Do I need to wait until one fish is showing symptoms and the spots drop off, switch tanks, wait 3 days, switch again. Or just switch every 3 days for 4 weeks even if the fish are asymptomatic?

Showing symptoms is not relevant. You are changing fish from one tank to the other every three days in the morning.
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
The sticky says:

" Tank Transfer to prevent/cure marine ich

The theory behind the tank transfer method of treating Cryptocaryon irritans is to move a fish from one tank to another when the parasites fall off the fish. The parasite fall of the fish during the night, so moving the animals first thing in the morning is preferred. The parasites that fall off will not find a host and so cannot complete the life cycle.

The treatment requires transferring the fish every 3 days to a clean tank for a total of 4 transfers. The parasites that leave the fish are left in the empty tank. Once exposed to marine ich, the tank and all materials and equipment need to be dried thoroughly before reuse to insure all the parasites die. I believe that the tank will dry overnight if toweled dry.

The process is fairly easy to perform with small tanks and limited equipment. Ammonia becomes less of an issue given only a 3 day stay. I recommend the usage of ammonia detoxifier anyway, just in case. Since the originating tank is a QT tank, simply drain it, clean it, and reestablish it for the next tank transfer. The filter floss used as a seeded biological filter is discarded as is all water. Any PVC or transfer equipment (nets, etc) should be sterilized. Tank transfer does cause stress for the fish but it is in some ways better than copper and just as effective as either copper or hyposalinity. I personally advocate a transfer done without nets."
 

Deinonych

New member
Tank transfer is pretty straightforward. All you really need is two sets of tanks, heaters and small powerheads. Only real downside is it requires a little extra work. The schedule I use is as follows:

Day 1 - Transfer fish to new QT
Day 4 - Transfer fish to new QT; drain, sanitize and dry all equipment
Day 6 - Fill new QT with fresh salt water and aerate for 24 hours (pointing powerhead at surface)
Day 7 - Transfer fish to new QT; drain, sanitize and dry all equipment
Day 9 - Fill new QT with fresh salt water and aerate for 24 hours
Day 10 - Transfer fish to new QT; drain, sanitize and dry all equipment
Day 13 - Transfer fish to QT for observation
 

GT350pwns

New member
are filters a must or could I get away with an air stone (just to make sure that there is enough oxygenation) and a small powerhead?

And correct me if I'm wrong:

8 weeks is usually sufficient time to clear the DT of marine ich? I know a fallow period of 12 weeks is ideal, but I highly HIGHLY doubt I'm going to be able to keep up 2 smaller tanks (want to make sure that the fish aren't too crowded to try to avoid aggression problems) for 3 months.
 

Deinonych

New member
There's no need for a filter. Ammonia is not really a concern over a three day period, and you can use an ammonia detoxifier like Seachem Prime if it starts to creep up. You can use an airstone with a powerhead if you wish, but I have found that placing the powerhead near the surface and pointing it upward provides more than enough surface agitation for gas exchange.

As far as fallow time, the consensus on this forum is that 9 weeks is really the bare minimum.
 
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