"Full Spektrum" LED color ratio

wilkerschnepf

New member
I know this has been asked a thousand times before, and I have searched, read, and even built a previous led fixture, but I'm interested to know what the current trend is for people building DIY exotic colored led rigs.

My last build a few years ago was with with bridglux LEDs using rb, b, cw, nw, and ww. With two meanwell drivers for a blue channel and a white channel. Fixture ran great until a friend that was watching my tank while we were away for Christmas somehow spilled water on the drivers, which of course I had not ever taken the time to close back up. They actually worked for about another month and then both failed.

So it's time to rebuild and hopefully improve!

I am using aluminum t-slot rails for my heatsinks, and LDD drivers, so I can control individual color channels. I am in that very small group that likes the "disco" effect coming from an evenly spread led array. When I go diving in the ocean I think the sea floor gets that same effect. I will also be incorporating 4 t5 lights into this fixture as well.

Tank size is 72"x18"x20" I will really be making two matching 36" fixtures one for each side of the tank. I am planning on about 52 LEDs per side and two t5s.
Basic plan is:
24 royal blues : 12 whites : 16 exotics

I am looking for suggestions for what whites to use and what exotics to go with.

Thanks in advance and I will keep this as my build thread once I have a plan. Last thing to order is LEDs and im ready!
 

beolson25

New member
Well ... I am no expert ... and honestly I am a fan of plain RB and White ... But ... People are using the UV(purple) LEDs as well as Reds and Greens. Another approach is to combine the RB and broad spectrum whites like Neutral or Warm Whites to complete the spectrum.

I think for people to reply with accurate ideas you should probably state your intent. Are you looking for a natural color? or what has been quoted as a "Windex" Blue color(This is what I like)? AND ... Are you looking for best coral growth or something more aesthetically pleasing to you or are you looking for florescence of certain corals?

I hope this will help narrow down the responses based on your comments.
 

wilkerschnepf

New member
Thanks! I keep a mixed reef with everything from mushrooms to sps. I have had decent success with my current blue/ white setup but I would like to get better color and growth from my sps. That is the primary reason for building the rig. I guess the rest is just wow factor if I can make my own diy fixture and mimic something like the radion so when the reef club comes over for a frag swap I can show them off.

More specific led question. I have read of people swaping some of the warm whites for lime but also that the red and green are not really needed. Unfortunately I havent met any locals that have built a full spektrum light so I can't judge some of the exotic colors for myself. Trying to get people's thoughts on other colors like turquoise, true violet, violet, amber, deep reds. I know I want to get a few of the violet range in there. Are people using royal Blues from different companies to try and get any variation?
 

R_Mc

New member
This is theory - because I have been toying with this for quite a while myself. But I believe the best solution would be a very high CRI white LED (4000k-5600k) with Blue/Cyan supplementation as necessary depending on the given spectral distribution.

Citizen has some very interesting Violet based high CRI emitters that would be perfect for this.

I've tried mixing all sorts of colors and it gets complicated...and non phosphor based leds have very sharp peaks with quick fall-off, resulting in low CRI. To keep it simple I think the above method is the only way.

That said, I don't think a more complete spectrum will necessarily drive better growth - plenty of studies are showing that almost purely chlor b blue with a little white gives the best growth...but things will just look better under a more 'natural' spectrum
 

wilkerschnepf

New member
Alright more info to take into consideration, thanks, I think. :hmm5: Can you point me in the direction of a high cri neutral white? Does the cree xm-l neutral white fit that bill? Also I can't seem to find a cyan led? Thanks for yor help.
 

oreo57

Active member
Alright more info to take into consideration, thanks, I think. :hmm5: Can you point me in the direction of a high cri neutral white? Does the cree xm-l neutral white fit that bill? Also I can't seem to find a cyan led? Thanks for yor help.

"full spectrum" is really cool white warm white, 660nm red, violet, cyan
in equal proprtions..
StevesLED has Phillips cyan..you have to be a bit careful since some Chinese "cyan" are really a dual blue/yellow emitter package w/ a peak (actually dual peak) in the wrong bandwidth..

Also may be "ok"
http://www.leds-global.com/3w-true-...ed-for-coral-grow-light-on-star-pcb-p-77.html
Interesting info on true full spectrum LED's.. (High CRI)
http://www.yujiintl.com/high-cri-led-lighting
 

R_Mc

New member
Also likely far red in the above mix as typical whites have a pretty early drop off. Just look at a reference white led and fill in the gaps with other emitters.
 

Khemul

New member
Can you point me in the direction of a high cri neutral white?
Stevesled has some rather high CRI warm whites. They have some moderately high neutral whites. They also offer cyan, although that can be found at just about any of the major hobby sponsors/diy supplier (RapidLED, StevesLEDs, that which cannot be named, etc.).

Part of the problem with LED suppliers is that low CRI bins look better on paper to the average customer. They appear brighter and more efficient. So those are what most companies stock/push. You have to hunt around for high CRI chips.


The Luxeon warm whites basically eliminate the need for anything from green to red. So then it is just a matter of filling in cyan, blue, royal blue and violet.
 

R_Mc

New member
I wrote to yuji but their UV based cobs are not ready for prime time - no prediction on when they will be available either. There are some other "high cri" LEDs out there but yuji really makes some claims with their marketing materials.
 

oreo57

Active member
The Luxeon warm whites basically eliminate the need for anything from green to red. So then it is just a matter of filling in cyan, blue, royal blue and violet.

3000K 95CRI
dXUo.jpg

* LED List
Philips Lumileds Luxeon A 3W CRI95 ANSI 3000K 3000K LXH9-PW30 135lm ×1
----------------------------------------
* Total Flux
Luminous Flux : 135 lm
Radiant Flux : 0.46 W
PPFD (PAR) : 2.3 µmol s⁻¹
----------------------------------------
* Spec by 120゚ & 30cm
Illuminance : 159.2 lx
PPFD (PAR) : 2.71 µmol m⁻² s⁻¹

http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
 
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wilkerschnepf

New member
Awesome info, I've got some research to do tonight! I would really like to get all my stars ordered by this weekend. Maybe i can start assembly the following weekend then.

So you guys prefer the luxeon warm whites to the cree?
 

wilkerschnepf

New member
Those luxeon ES 4000k 85 cri stars from stevesled look like the winners for warm white. How about the Cree Xpe or xte royal blues? Is one better than the other?
 

zachts

New member
bridgelux vero with 90 cri or any other chip like the nichia with 90cri in cooler color temps. very broad spectrum for whites. for an all LED build they are still lacking though and need to be supplemented in the 500nm and 480nm ranges along with a lot of violet (410-430nm).

Of course using T5 you can forget all the LED stuff and just use straight up Royal Blues for growth awsome growth and rely on the T5 for the rest of the viewing hours of the day. (incidently T5 has VERY spiky spectral graphs, so much so that I'm not sure an LED array could replicate it any time soon, even single color non-phosphor emitters are not as narrow.......)
 

zachts

New member
Those luxeon ES 4000k 85 cri stars from stevesled look like the winners for warm white. How about the Cree Xpe or xte royal blues? Is one better than the other?

2700k warm white 90 CRI wins by a long shot in the spectral graph if paired with a cooler white like 5000k 80 CRI (my favorite combo for whites from Steves) doesn't need supplemented with any thing over 500nm in most cases for an all LED build.......(though for a select few corals a little red supplementation can help)
 

wilkerschnepf

New member
Thanks i will look at those when I finish with work tonight. So you would run half 2700k half 5000k for my whites, or a different ratio? I didn't see a cri rating for the 2700k on the steves led site.

Any thoughts on the royal blue leds?
 

ghellin

New member
I use a high binning Cree CW, 90+ CRI Nichia NW, 90+ CRI Cree warm white, RB, 400-410 violet, and 410-420 violet. All on separate channels of course. Rendering is amazing and no useless greens or reds.
 

Fish Stix

New member
People would tell you my color selection is a bit awkward but I love it...I don't even have to have any whites on at all to get an overall white color to my tank....thanks to the color selection. Don't be afraid to experiment with the so called "exotic" colors to see what works for you.
 

zachts

New member
Thanks i will look at those when I finish with work tonight. So you would run half 2700k half 5000k for my whites, or a different ratio? I didn't see a cri rating for the 2700k on the steves led site.

Any thoughts on the royal blue leds?

model number : LXW9-PW27

"9" indicates 90 CRI

50/50 is the ratio that I preferred after trying a few dozen different mixes. To each their own though. I encourage experimentation!
 

wilkerschnepf

New member
Really appreciate all of the input guys!

I would love experiment with color choices, but from previous experience i will get it all soldered, wired, assembled and installed over the tank and that is where it will stay. I have a pile of bridglux leds from my first build I was going to experiment with, but they just never got installed.

That's why I am trying to do a little more planning and research on led choices this time. I hung a couple cheapy China 120w cw/rb led boxes over the tank for now till I can get this build up and running. All of my coral seem pretty happy except one blue milli that is towards the center and not getting light between the two fixtures, I think it is a goner. If it takes a little longer to get the right leds so be it.

A member from my local forum wrote me today and said he recently built a light rig with LEDs in an "evil cluster" using the vero 10 warm white, 8 up royal blue, lime, hyper violet, and true violet. So I am going to try and arrange a time to see it in person.
 
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perkint

New member
There is always the 97CRI 3000K vero 10s :)

The XTE Royal Blue packs a better punch per watt than the XPE does by quite a margin. If going cree for RB, you definitely want the XTE. The XTE is still a fair bit better than the XPE2.

You can easily compare Cree chips using this:
http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

Shame no one makes something like that for all LEDs :p

Tim
 
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