"Full Spektrum" LED color ratio

Perkint do you have a good source for that vero outside of digikey?
Mine came from digikey, but even if I did have an alternate source, it might not have been much good for you unless you are also on this side of the pond (UK not US!) :)

Tim
 
How do you currently run your chinese setups, as far as blue to white ratio on the dimmers? Because, if you have the blues much higher than the whites, that means your preference may be towards the blue side, and if so, high CRI may not be what you want, with whites. I'm trying to mod a light myself to use almost no whites, if any, my thread is the "modernizing led colors" one.

If you google around on "CRI", you find a site that shows comparisons of high and low CRI lights on a person's picture. The high CRI one is really, really red. the more "normal" looking picture is cool white. If you want a really warm look, than high CRI, if you want more "neutral" or even blue look, than use less CRI.
 
If you google around on "CRI", you find a site that shows comparisons of high and low CRI lights on a person's picture. The high CRI one is really, really red. the more "normal" looking picture is cool white. If you want a really warm look, than high CRI, if you want more "neutral" or even blue look, than use less CRI.


Actually there are 2 CRI standards.. Indoor tungsten and 6500k Daylight that they measure lights against..

more simple explanation is how an artificial light source shifts the location of eight specified colors on a version of the C.I.E. color space as compared to the same colors lighted by a reference source of the same Color Temperature. If there is no change in appearance, the light source is given a CRI of 100 by definition. From 2000K to 5000K, the reference source is the Black Body Radiator and above 5000K, it is an agreed upon form of daylight. Incandescent bulbs have a CRI rating of 100, yet are far from ideal for color rendering and matching. Why? With a color temperature of only 2700k they are far too weak at the blue end of the spectrum making it next to impossible to distiguish between various shades of blue. The CRI rating of 100 simply means that the 8 samples look exactly the same as they would under a black body radiator at 2700k. The same can be said for lamps that exceed 6000k in color temperature as they are too weak in the red end of the spectrum, making reds and oranges appear too similar creating a "washed out" appearance. The northern sky with a color temperature of about 7500k and a CRI of 100 is not necessarily the ideal color rendering light source either. An ideal light source for color rendering will have both a color temperature similar to daylight and a high CRI value.
see example photo:
http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/cri_explained.htm

The image on the left is an example of a full spectrum light source with a kelvin temperature similar to natural daylight and a CRI of 93. The image on the right is from a Solux halogen bulb source touted as having a "spectral match to daylight" and a CRI of 98. So why does her white hat appear yellow and not white in the photo? It is because the CRI calculation and spectral match was done against a 4100k reference source which is several shades more yellow than the actual sunlight striking the earth's surface. Remember CRI can only be determined by using a reference that has the same color temperature. A true spectral match to daylight would only occur in the 5000-6000k range, not at daylight if it were only 4100k! In our opinion, it is unfortunate that marketing strategies like this are allowed to exist, but can be easily avoided by the educated consumer.
 
There is always the 97CRI 3000K vero 10s :)

The XTE Royal Blue packs a better punch per watt than the XPE does by quite a margin. If going cree for RB, you definitely want the XTE. The XTE is still a fair bit better than the XPE2.

You can easily compare Cree chips using this:
http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

Shame no one makes something like that for all LEDs :p

Tim

That cree comparison database is pretty awesome, thanks for that link, and the info on the Xpe vs xte. Also someone mentioned using octoparts to search for leds that site has been super helpful as well. I see they have higher cri bridgelux velo 10 listed, a few 95s. But when I look at the bridgelux data sheets they only show 90 as the max cri. Is the octoparts description trustworthy?
 
The Birdgelux Vero series has 70, 80, 90, and 97CRI versions, but each series (10, 13, 18, 29) has some different LEDs available.

The Vero 10 (which are around 2K lumens at 700mA, all that most people will ever need) has 90 CRI available in 3000K, 4000K, and 5000K. The Vero 18 (much larger chips with far higher output) has 90CRI available in all of those, plus in 5600K, but they'd need to be run on so little current that it makes them a burden, so I would stick with the 4000K or 5000K 90CRI.


I also wanted to note that you will want to use the Rebel ES 'lime' no matter what else you choose. Any LED arrays going forward should have it. They raise brightness to the eye greater than any other LED and do not have the same 'green spotlight' effect that dedicated 530nm LEDs do.
 
How do you currently run your chinese setups, as far as blue to white ratio on the dimmers? Because, if you have the blues much higher than the whites, that means your preference may be towards the blue side, and if so, high CRI may not be what you want, with whites. I'm trying to mod a light myself to use almost no whites, if any, my thread is the "modernizing led colors" one.

If you google around on "CRI", you find a site that shows comparisons of high and low CRI lights on a person's picture. The high CRI one is really, really red. the more "normal" looking picture is cool white. If you want a really warm look, than high CRI, if you want more "neutral" or even blue look, than use less CRI.

The current China boxes running on the tank are non dimming 1w led deals. They are only temporary as my previous fixture is down. It was a mix of old bridgelux 3w leds, blue leds in various wavelengths from 445-465, and whites also mixed as cool, neutral, and warm. I was using two pots (knobs) to adjust, so exact percentage is unknown, but I would guess blues about 75-90% and whites about 60-75%. When I built these there were no LDD drivers, and 6 eln drivers was not in the budget. I would occasionally turn the knobs to show people how they worked and wasn't very precise about where they went back to. Each of the two channels is connected to my apex blues on for 11 hrs, whites on for 7 hrs. I am sure I have some diagrams of my led layout and pics from the build just to show what I was running. I'll search for them today and post if found.

I am really looking forward to being able to dim each channel and have a nice ramp up, ramp down schedule for daily viewing. I figure even if I add some colors that I don't like, there is no need to run them. That's the great thing about these multi channel builds we can make now. Goes for the whites as well, might only have them ramp on for an hour or two "midday" that is my plans for the t5s. They will be running less than 4 hrs per day for sure. I'm hopeing to keep bulb replacement to once a year. Doing the 4 bulbs on my little frag light twice a year is an annoyance to me every time I shell out the 80 bucks. After my main build is done I might make a small rig for the frag tank.
 
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As promised a few pics from the last build.

Bridgelux LEDs, in six different varieties
6081587189_48b17bd217_z.jpg


Tapping my aluminum "heatsink"
6095954978_b61ab8681f_z.jpg


I love how clean the build can be with the aluminum t-slot
6095956680_3d2e45677e_z.jpg


Wire for my multiple parallel strings, much happier about single strings per driver
6095958298_b36b43554e_z.jpg


And a shot of testing the white channel at low intensity
6082142882_f33d1bfdc8_z.jpg


A FTS so you can see what i am working with
8522391513_ab9d45ed3a_z.jpg


Sorry tank is a little bit of a mess right now, i was trying to see if i could make some of what i have work to help supplement the 1w china leds.
 
Mine came from digikey, but even if I did have an alternate source, it might not have been much good for you unless you are also on this side of the pond (UK not US!) :)

Tim

I get them from Digikey shipping is quite cheap via USPS....they are always the cheapest when comparing prices and sources thru Octoparts.com
 
So i spent some time tonight checking out the few online led vendors and am a little amazed at how many "exotic" color leds there are.

So my plan, (subject to change)

24 Cree XT-E Royal Blue
6 Bridgelux vero10 2700K
6 Bridgelux vero10 5000K
6 Luxeon ES Lime
4 Luxeon ES Deep Red
4 SemiLED Hyper Violet
4 Exotic True Violet
4 Exotic Turquoise
4 Luxeon ES Amber
4 Luxeon ES Cyan

Way more LEDs than I had originally planned for the fixture. Im down to remove a few or cut some out completely. Wasn't sure about the amber or turquoise. Or if I need to increase a color please advise. Final question for the gurus is: which hyper violet is better steves or lgb? I remember reading somewhere that people were having issues with some of the lenses browning or burning.
 
So i spent some time tonight checking out the few online led vendors and am a little amazed at how many "exotic" color leds there are.

So my plan, (subject to change)

24 Cree XT-E Royal Blue
6 Bridgelux vero10 2700K
6 Bridgelux vero10 5000K
6 Luxeon ES Lime
4 Luxeon ES Deep Red
4 SemiLED Hyper Violet
4 Exotic True Violet
4 Exotic Turquoise
4 Luxeon ES Amber
4 Luxeon ES Cyan

Way more LEDs than I had originally planned for the fixture. Im down to remove a few or cut some out completely. Wasn't sure about the amber or turquoise. Or if I need to increase a color please advise. Final question for the gurus is: which hyper violet is better steves or lgb? I remember reading somewhere that people were having issues with some of the lenses browning or burning.
Yep lot "o" colors and this doesn't even include all that you list ("lime" and PC amber)

Maxspect-LED.jpg


Rebel%20and%20ES%20lime%20PCamber.png

I'd start by throwing out amber (any amber) and pick cyan or turquoise unless bandwidth peak is very different. you could put them on the same channel I suppose. Wouldn't hurt.
As to violets I thought the Semi's were "the best" as to life and stability..

http://ledfullcolor.blogspot.com/2012_07_01_archive.html
 
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I'd be tempted to cut down the number of vero 10s as well. As always it depends on what colour you are trying to achieve and what current you intend to run them at, but the vero 10s run at nearly 10 times the voltage of your average 5W LED and therefore use a lot more power (and give off more light) so one vero 10 is the equivalent of quite a few (for example) XTEs.

Tim
 
So i spent some time tonight checking out the few online led vendors and am a little amazed at how many "exotic" color leds there are.

So my plan, (subject to change)

24 Cree XT-E Royal Blue
6 Bridgelux vero10 2700K
6 Bridgelux vero10 5000K
6 Luxeon ES Lime
4 Luxeon ES Deep Red
4 SemiLED Hyper Violet
4 Exotic True Violet
4 Exotic Turquoise
4 Luxeon ES Amber
4 Luxeon ES Cyan

Way more LEDs than I had originally planned for the fixture. Im down to remove a few or cut some out completely. Wasn't sure about the amber or turquoise. Or if I need to increase a color please advise. Final question for the gurus is: which hyper violet is better steves or lgb? I remember reading somewhere that people were having issues with some of the lenses browning or burning.
My tank is 48"x24"x16" and I'm currently using:
4x 4000K 90CRI Vero 10
8x Luxeon M royal blue
8x Rebel blue
4x Rebel cyan
8x Rebel ES lime
4x Rebel red
4x SemiLEDs N5 (quad-die chips)

At 700mA on all channels, no lenses, 26" off the bottom of the tank, this is the PAR I got.
all%2520led%2520t5%2520700ma%2520par.jpg


Yours will be a little bit higher off the bottom of the tank, but having four T5 will bring up intensity by quite a bit, so I would expect the numbers above still.

Now, if I were doing your tank, I would use
6x Vero 10 (you can do the mixture of 2700K and 5000K, but the 5000K still has 90CRI and will be ok by itself)
12x Luxeon M royal blue
12x Rebel blue
12x Rebel cyan
12x Rebel ES lime
18-24x LGB violet


Amber is unnecessary with the use of high-CRI vero 10, as is deep red. The LGB 'turquoise' is just a cyan LED and there is not a difference (except in output) in the Rebel cyan.

Even Steve's new legit SemiLEDs violets don't have the same output (nor nearly the spectral width) of the LGB hyper violet.
 
My tank is 48"x24"x16" and I'm currently using:
4x 4000K 90CRI Vero 10
8x Luxeon M royal blue
8x Rebel blue
4x Rebel cyan
8x Rebel ES lime
4x Rebel red
4x SemiLEDs N5 (quad-die chips)

At 700mA on all channels, no lenses, 26" off the bottom of the tank, this is the PAR I got.

Yours will be a little bit higher off the bottom of the tank, but having four T5 will bring up intensity by quite a bit, so I would expect the numbers above still.

Now, if I were doing your tank, I would use
6x Vero 10 (you can do the mixture of 2700K and 5000K, but the 5000K still has 90CRI and will be ok by itself)
12x Luxeon M royal blue
12x Rebel blue
12x Rebel cyan
12x Rebel ES lime
18-24x LGB violet


Amber is unnecessary with the use of high-CRI vero 10, as is deep red. The LGB 'turquoise' is just a cyan LED and there is not a difference (except in output) in the Rebel cyan.

Even Steve's new legit SemiLEDs violets don't have the same output (nor nearly the spectral width) of the LGB hyper violet.

Thanks Jedi, couldn't ask for a better response than that!

I guess I am way overboard with my list of leds as that was for 1 of the 2 "halves" for my complete light setup. For maintenance purposes I am making two 36" fixtures. Each one will have two t5s so should be similar to yours. I will drop the amber and turquoise, and rework the led count. I spent a couple hours drawing my light fixture with sketchup, once I get it done I'll post it as well.

Couple questions about your setup.
It's a little hard to tell from the pic, but are your leds grouped into 4 clusters?
If so is the coverage front to back of the tank (24") good with clusters centered?

Thanks again for your input
 
Thanks Jedi, couldn't ask for a better response than that!

I guess I am way overboard with my list of leds as that was for 1 of the 2 "halves" for my complete light setup. For maintenance purposes I am making two 36" fixtures. Each one will have two t5s so should be similar to yours. I will drop the amber and turquoise, and rework the led count. I spent a couple hours drawing my light fixture with sketchup, once I get it done I'll post it as well.
Wait, what you posed above was for each half?! lol, I missed that part! You would have been WAY over what you needed lol.

I would actually split the heatsinks into three sections, not two. One 18" section to cover each 24" of tank (I'm assuming that your tank has bracing on the top) and then run the LEDs in two clusters on each one, each cluster 8" apart on-center for the most even coverage.

But if two 36" heatsinks are going to work out better, then stick with that plan. Do you have a canopy or anything?
 
Be careful how many "exotic" colors you use, some of them are really, really good... at growing unwanted algae over time.
 
Wait, what you posed above was for each half?! lol, I missed that part! You would have been WAY over what you needed lol.

I would actually split the heatsinks into three sections, not two. One 18" section to cover each 24" of tank (I'm assuming that your tank has bracing on the top) and then run the LEDs in two clusters on each one, each cluster 8" apart on-center for the most even coverage.

But if two 36" heatsinks are going to work out better, then stick with that plan. Do you have a canopy or anything?

There is a center brace in the tank that is 12" wide and 6" of it is three panes of glass, so pretty opaque. The three fixture idea doesn't work that great.

15834821233_3f43b8581d_z.jpg
 
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