Grounding probes: Hazard or helpful?

Here are some real life experiances to think about.

about 20 years ago I had a Powerhead with bad insulation
(the company recalled them later), I stuck my hand in the tank.
while having bare feet on Carpet and got a nice jolt

I don't recall but the carpet (that was over concrete)
may have been damp.


The second one was last night when my 20 year old son
was nice enough to ensure the breaker was off (yea right)
as I was replacing the light switch in his room.

I could actually feel the current up through one arm
across my chest and down the other.

Such a pleasant feeeling.

I guess he figured I was tired and needed a recharge :)


Note to self: Flip breaker myself.
 
Harry_Fish; Glad you made it!

I always still test with a neon tester or meter before proceeding even if turned off the breaker. Then the next step is to sort the wires to the box with my screwdriver. I'd rather a big flash than a big jolt. Then I can proceed.
 
BTW not to stir up a hornets nest.. But, I'm pretty sure the debate was never over should you have both or just the one..
The debate was over is a probe alone safer then neither. Some think a probe adds some level of safety while others think the probe could just mask a problem and maybe even add to the risk. I'm not even talking about the whole shocking the fish cause that seems to be a concern with any option.
 
Nothing like stepping up on a ladder and getting the back of your neck into a dangling hot wire.... It always makes my day.

Or how about working on a 3-way switch circuit that you do not know is a 3-way. "Hey turn that switch off for me buddy..." The light goes out, so you grab ahold of the conductors and start working... *BZZZT*

Yup... I always use a tester anymore.

However, sometimes you just have to pucker. A few years ago I upgraded my service from 60A to 200A. Here in my area of Pittsburgh, the power company (Duquense Light) will not do a disconnect and reconnect for a service upgrade, they leave it up to the electrician. Once it is done, they will come check the connectors and retape the connection. To say they least, you have to move (2) hot legs from one service drop to the other, and do so HOT. Trivial for a lineman with the proper gloves and isolated bucket... not fun for me and my leather gloves and electrical taped socket and wrench. Aluminum ladder anybody :)
 
Sheeesh. And a guy with a defibrillator standing by.

I was walking bare foot across a wet concrete floor when my elbow touched a hanging piece of hot zip cord. That was the worst jolt I ever got.
 
Well, as long as we are hi-jacking this thread with old war stories, now, I'll toss out mine. :D :uzi: :blown:

Back in my stupid days I grabbed live 480 VAC with my bare hands. I was flipping the main disconnect on a control panel, pulling three fuses, turning on the panel, and then radioing a guy to try to turn on all the motors in a factory until one stopped working. About the 10th or 12th motor, I got the off/on out of synch and reach in to grab a live fuse. Got my thumb and forefinger between two phases. I was standing on concrete and that would have been the end of me right then and there if I would not have purchased brand new, 1000V insulated Wolverine work boots the week before. Well, experence may have saved me, too, because I had my other hand in my back pocket rather than leaning on the panel. In any case, my fuse-grabbing hand was numb for hours.

I now have an arc-flash suit and helmet and 1000V rated gloves and tools for when I engage in such stupidity.
 
Runner,

Ohhh.... but DONT tell that to Young Frank.

Because he just KNOWS that anyone who claims to be an engineer couldnt POSSIBLY have any real experience ( even if you directly tell him that you have ).

Here's what Frank says about me and Bean:

"I dont present myself as an expert.........I am one, and I am doing electrical work for 30 years.
You and BA on the other hand are not experts, since you have no experience."

So apparently he is psychic as well, and can tell what we have been doing for our whole lives.

Stu
 
Some of you may know that I spent 15 or so years working in underground coal mines ( I have been in mines all over the country and canada). Anyway, I have been into the 500+ volt DC trolly wire a few times myself and been in a derailed mantrip that caused a direct short between the wire and rail (arc flash is an understatement) and continue to arc (well shoot fire) until the 1" thick copper wire melted through and sagged away from the vehicle. I have also seen my share of 3-phase 480/575 direct shorts on feeds rated at well over 200A. I have seen 1000Hp motors go to partially to ground, etc.

I have also had the unfortunate experience to witness an electrician cause a direct short while working in a live 7.2kV underground load center. He lived... somehow.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13328213#post13328213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stugray
Runner,

Ohhh.... but DONT tell that to Young Frank.

Because he just KNOWS that anyone who claims to be an engineer couldnt POSSIBLY have any real experience ( even if you directly tell him that you have ).

Here's what Frank says about me and Bean:

"I dont present myself as an expert.........I am one, and I am doing electrical work for 30 years.
You and BA on the other hand are not experts, since you have no experience."

So apparently he is psychic as well, and can tell what we have been doing for our whole lives.

Stu
Click to expand...
let it go already man for GODS SAKE !! You must have gone throe some bad experience with electricians :D we always blame the engineer is part of the game.
 
Young Frankenstein,

Sorry it's hard to let it go.

In THIS thread I have actually agreed with almost everything you have said about the topic ( although not so much your debate sklls)

However in two other threads, you have managed to insult almost everyone, then get the thread closed before we could defend ourselves.

Makes it kind of hard to let it go....

Oh and as far as I can tell, you still have not apologized for calling both Bean & myself idiots when we were right all along.

Stu ( just an engineer )
 
Ok ........."the engineer", "engineer #1", "the best engineer", "engineer of engineers", pick one and let it go.I did. Tomorow is anothr day. Dont wait for an appology because there will not be one.
 
I am generally nice to electricians, too -- especially when I am telling the they have to rework something because the scope changed. ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13324404#post13324404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress
Harry_Fish; Glad you made it!

.....
Click to expand...

Ah Yes

Actually As bad as this sounds it actually is quite
a cool feeling until you realize what is going on.

Tesla used to give him self electrical treatments to recharge, plus
he drank a glas of whisky a day. He may have been on to something.

Let me go get my bottle of whisky and a zip cord :)
 
huh..

suddenly i feel like i did in hs when i hadn't done my homework..

so last night, right.. i'm standing in my basement, barefoot on the concrete as always (we don't wear shoes in the house and honestly, i'd never realized that was bad until reading this thread) and when i reached into the tank, bam!

now, this has happened several times over the last 6mos or so as i've had 5 yes FIVE koralia powerheads go bad and leak current into my tank. i have a multimeter so i threw it on 150v AC, stuck the red probe in the water and the black probe in the ground hole in a nearby socket. after a lengthy trial and error session, i believe i identified the offender as my skimmer pump. however, i could never get higher than a 1volt reading on my multimeter. sure enough though, the finger probe concurred that my skimmer was the problem.

so, lessons learned (lest you think no good has come from all your bickering):

1. i need to get some gfi mojo happening for my gear. kinda knew that already but didn't think it was really that big of a deal.
2. gonna find a couple ground probes, one for the sump, one for the display.
3. i'm going to keep some slippers in the basement for tank work.
4. my multimeter's smarter than i am.


questions i still have:

1. I have had several coral bleaching/deaths over the last 6 months. monti caps, mille's, then acros in that order. my fish appear fine. what are the chances this could have been caused by the many leaks i've had? ignore the myriad of other possibilities please, just looking for a yes or no to guide my further troubleshooting.

2. WHY DO I NOT HAVE AN ELECTRICIAN FRIEND? lol..


thanks all. you may have saved my wife an unpleasant discovery in the basement..
 
I've got two Koralia pumps that leak current right now.. I've given up on them. They were suppose to have fixed the problem with their first Gen pumps.

BTW I don't think slippers will help you.. I've been shocked by leaking current with my house shoes and my flip flops on. My Equipment room is Epoxy coated concrete so I find bad pumps A LOT.. Yes I have GFCI outets on all my pumps.. But with say the Koralia pump in my trash can mixing SW with no ground probe it still lit me up the other night. I guess cause the pumps only have a 2 prong plug? . Most of the time its just a sharp tingle when pumps start going bad though so no biggie.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13330527#post13330527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by funman1
0 Agios, I thought you were a High Voltage Lineman?
Click to expand...
I have worked with high voltage and I am a certified splicer up to medium voltage. Live work up to 13.2kv.
 
OK - so trying to keep the thread on track, I've read enough to realize that I need to do some work on my set up.

Current Situation: Running grounding probes with no GFI outlets.

So I guess I need to get this thing set up on GFI outlets. I've heard that you can also just swap out the breaker for a GFI breaker.

1) Is swapping out one breaker instead of 3 or 4 outlets an acceptable option?

2) I suppose swapping out the outlets would be better - less chance of the entire system going down - correct?

3) Somewhere in this thread (or a similar one), someone posted that you really shouldn't trust HD GFI outlets. If you can't trust HD GFI outlets what brand of GFI outlets/breakers can be trusted and where do you get them from?
 
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