Gussets or No Gussets?

[Dustin1300]

Brother actually is a welder and does at his job regularly. Got source of steel this morning, Just need to figure out gussets and whether additional support is needed!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[MarkGP]

Cool. Good luck and post more pics of the process!

 

[Dustin1300]

Still trying to think through things and come up with a couple different models of the stand. Would really appreciate input on whether you think I should add additional vertical support since it has 45" span with no vertical support.

 

[Dustin1300]

Ok, I've built two new 'models' of what I interpret as better support and prevention of collapsing. We aren't known for earthquakes in Indiana but I'd like to keep my marriage together with this tank build

I chose to not put gussets in some places for access with plumbing and other equipment I plan to stow below the tank. Please share your opinions as I'm not thin skinned. Adding this much more metal with the verticals is going to add some descent weight but I also would rather be safe than sorry. As noted in the original graphic, the center brace is actually two 1.5" square tubes stacked on top of one another.

Original. Please take note of the 1.5" tubes stacked, spans between vertical support, and what I'm currently working with.

5" Gussets added in convenient locations for when I'm working under the tank. Amazing how fast you run out of room even when you have a "fish room".

2" square tube verticals added in addition to the gussets. I'm not an engineer, just not sure if a 4 foot span is too far and will sag too much to be comfortable. Something WILL give one day if it droops too much. This design just drastically cuts down on my access and makes it harder to build large sump(s).

 

[MarkGP]

I don't think you could possibly make any stronger than that last pic. You could put a house on thing and withstand an earthquake. If that doesn't give you piece of mind, I don't know what will. Nice design!

 

[Acrylics]

If possible... rather than the vertical supports on the ends, which will be a nuisance - can you double-up the horizontal beams across the top? I'm meaning all 5 going front to back. Well, 4 since one already is

The end horizontal beams shouldn't sag much because the ends of the tank wont sag much, if at all due to the structure of the tank. The 3 "middle" horizontal beams will sag though. So I *personally* would double those up and *perhaps* add gussets to those and their associate vertical supports.

Only other thing I would suggest is doubling up the plywood on top - simply gluing and screwing the 3/4" plywood deck will add a good bit of rigidity.

A little word of caution though; be careful not to add too, too much so the the stand warps. Adding this much beef and the necessary welding can make it warp out and then the tank may not sit flat on the stand.

James

 

[Dustin1300]

I don't think you could possibly make any stronger than that last pic. You could put a house on thing and withstand an earthquake. If that doesn't give you piece of mind, I don't know what will. Nice design!

Sorry if your following along on my build thread now but trying to span all audiences. I'm starting to think gussets are a bit crazy when I add so many more vertical spans I've been thinking about this more last night and from some other threads I have going on this I have a few alternatives but not sure direction I'll take yet.

Current three models I'm four models I'm considering. Gussets may be removed totally on the ones with lots of vertical support.

Model #1:

Model #2:

Model #3:

Model #4:

 

[Acrylics]

if you can do #3 or #4 while keeping the top planar.... wonderful
all the gussets are nice, but don't too many..

James

 

[Dustin1300]

Agreed, if any gap between the two exists then your just defeating the purpose of doubling them up. That might mean lots of grinding but it'll be worth it

At this point, I'm liking model #3 the most because it combines the doubled up 2" square tubing and vertical support. The gussets almost seem like complete overkill with the addition of front/back spans. With the additional vertical supports I'm also questioning whether the gussets are needed in that direction too....Would you recommend even having the gussets at this point?

 

[Acrylics]

Gussets will not hurt anything and will add a good bit of shear strength so the stand can't rack or twist but yeah - if going with #3, I'd remove all but maybe the ones on the back. They won't be in the way and still give the extra resistance against racking or twisting.
Or leave some and use them to mount your skins? at that point, keep some as a convenience. If inconvenient to your purposes, you can lose them without losing sleep IMO.

James

 

[Dustin1300]

Gussets are just for racking and twisting that could exist. No use for mounting as the tank is in-wall.

 

[Dustin1300]

Just made final modifications in Sketchup. Hopefully no one has any complaints about the design. I think this adds much needed strength and allows for good accessibility and can move large sump through the end of the stand. All red components are new pieces I've got to have laser cut.

Front:

Back:

 

[Acrylics]

added a good bit, and some will say it's overkill.. but extra strength to hold 600 gallons of saltwater in your home is not wasted. It's an insurance policy you pay for once and lasts a lifetime..

James

 

[kcress]

3 if clearance is not a problem 4 if it is.

In all cases you only need gussets for anti-racking on the back and the rear sides. They're to prevent a sideways or fore/aft jolt from sending it all over. But all around is certainly fine too.

 

[MarkGP]

Looks good. I would remove the gussets on the front side middle support and add them to the ends in the upper corners for racking front to back. The gussets on the four corners front and back are more than enough for racking side to side.

 

[Dustin1300]

I've been beating myself up on this today and going back and forth and because I'm going to have equipment under the stand, I really don't think I like all the vertical supports on the spans and rather like Model #3. 21 inches is not much width to even get your shoulders in! As long as no one sees any problems with this structurally, I think I might stick with it.

Backside:

Underside:

I really think it's probably over doing it as James earlier stated and wish I just had a design program that could test the structural integrity of my design rather than just bothering everyone.

 

[Dustin1300]

I've been beating myself up on this today and going back and forth and because I'm going to have equipment under the stand, I really don't think I like all the vertical supports on the spans and rather like Model #3. 21 inches is not much width to even get your shoulders in! As long as no one sees any problems with this structurally, I think I might stick with it.

Backside:

Underside:

I really think it's probably over doing it as James earlier stated and wish I just had a design program that could test the structural integrity of my design rather than just bothering everyone.

 

[kcress]

You have to put the gussets on the top AND the bottom.

Just put four in the back and two on the left side rear and right side. (bottom AND top)

 

[super_steve85]

I happen to be a structural engineer and can run a quick calc for you if you'd like.

Some thoughts on gussets; they don't necessarily have to be top and bottom, but it will add to the rigidity of the structure if they are. What also adds to the rigidity if fully welded ends of the tubes. This essentially creates a moment frame out of each leg/rail connection.

If you're worried about the stand falling over (not tipping over, but moving enough so that the stand collapses), gussets or diagonal braces will do the best job of resisting this. The moment connection provided by a full-weld at the ends of the vertical legs will help do this also, but they will allow more movement than gussets.

There is, actually, a rather large fault just south of Indiana. I'm not sure where you live, but if it's in southern Indiana, gussets may be a good idea. Just in case. If you're in northern Indiana, you're probably fine without them. Unless it gets really windy in your house.

Let me know if I can be some help.

 

[Dustin1300]

You have to put the gussets on the top AND the bottom.

Just put four in the back and two on the left side rear and right side. (bottom AND top)

You think with the additional 2" tubes on the bottom of the top support structure that the gussets are still needed on the tops too?