Help! levels are all fine....but fish are dieing

[casey7e]

Hello
I have a 55 gal tank in my living room wall that is also seen from my bedroom wall...it has been up for about 2 years....It took me some time to learn the process and patience of setting it up....It had been running fine for the past year.....I have 45lbs of live rock....about a 2-3" layer of live sand

I run a Turbo Twist 18 watt UV and a cascade 1000 canister filer that I keep about 15 lbs of live rock in as filtration instead of any sponges. I have a dual Back Pack protien skimmer that I run for about 1 week a month (because the tank is seen from both rooms I dont like to have the backpack seen constantly and thought a week a month of good skimming would be fine...
Once a month a run some carbon for about a week (do you think this a good set up for a 55 gal fish only tank with live rock) Im not able to do huge sumps and anything else intense....

The fish stock was a small yellow tang...a blue cromis....two clown fish....1 long spine sea urchin....1 yellowwatchman gobie..1 pj cadinal.....and a coral beauty angel
I also had some mushrooms (hairy and leather)

Last week the tang and the angel died...and all other fish were breathing heavy....I did levels and it showned the PH to be very low....I checked ammonia...nitrates...nitrites....everything was fine...(should I be checking for something else) ..I uped my PH right away with Seachems PH 8.3 Safe Buffer......It came up right away and the fish starting breathing better.....A few hours later they were back to breathing heavy...even the sea urchin was just about not moving......I took everyone out except the PJ cardinal(could catch) and put them in the hospital tank....they are all fine now.....

On close inspection of the tank I see that there are hundreds of little centipede like worms that have all come out of the rock....Id say half dead half just moving around in the sand. The sand has been starting to look very dirty lately....a brown muck to it
Am I having major Die off of the live rock?? Is it just that the PH dropped and needs time to adjust again??
I did a 20% water change after all the fish got out and cleaned out the filter
The PJ cardinal is still alive but still having a bit of trouble breathing.....
What do you tking went wrong
Im going to try to send some photos to my gallery so please click on my camera icon....Im still having troubles trying to get them attached to my threads.
Thank you for any feedback.

 

[Cutiewitbooty]

Hmmm thats kinda weird, sounds like a chemical or something might have gotten into the tank. As for the worms thoes seem like bristle worms and they ar normal, but it's not normal for them to be comming out of the rock and dying.

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Amber is right. Is there anything above the tank that could have fallen in? Any possibility of accidently having something on your hands when you put them in there?
Eric

 

[gtriamy]

how much did the ph change, and in what time frame?

 

[PatMayo]

How often do you feed and when you run the protien skimmer did you get a good amount of gunk out of the tank?

If the sand is looking very dirty it sounds to me like a nutrient build up and the tank could be crashing.

How often do you perform water changes and how many gallons each time?

Oxygen problem maybe? What kind of circulation do you have besides the cannister filter and the occasional use of the skimmer?

Also running good activated carbon 24/7 will help your tank.

Regards,

Pat

 

[Swanwillow]

and instead of saying 'everything was fine' what was fine? my fine is different from your fine I bet

especially: what was the PH and why did you add PH buffer? If they are fine in a QT, you may need to do a large water change to level out the ph...

 

[casey7e]

Hi to all
The PH was low when it went down ...like 7.8......Its back up to 8.3
I change the water only about once every 3-4 months....I have a dry house so I am adding water every other day from about 1-2" of evaporation.
I think I am going to add a power head for more current . The PJ cardinal is starting to look much better so hopefully things are coming back.....do you think the tank will recycle all over again??
With all other test I meant that the levels were all fine in all of the tests I did

 

[ReefHotSpot]

One issue is the quick rise in ph. Quick rises in ph should never be attempted and can result in a major die off. .2 change in a 24 hour period should be the maximum attempted and I would recommend going slower than that. Quick rises in ph change the potential of ammonia to ionize into a much more toxic form. That could have been one of your problems. I am also a little circumspect about the once a month skimming. It sounds to me like you might have had a buildup of organic material and whatever ammonia you had in your water become extremely toxic to the point at which the bristleworms couldn't handle it. The heavy breathing could have been a low DO level it could have also been the results of disruption or buring because of ammonia levels. What did the fish that died look like. Were they're fins suddenly cloudy or beat up? Were they're eyes cloudy? When the gills were moving fast, were they also flared? Did you see any weird mouth movement along with the rapid gill movement? any speckling of the body with white powdery stuff? I had a poising event recently from a yellow box fish being put in with incorrect tank mates by an employee and the neurotoxin released by the fish caused a similar result but have you a yellow boxfish? Didn't think so.

Max
reefhotspot.com

 

[casey7e]

Well the two fish that were dead were just stiff and had there mouths open....all the fish that were breathing heavy were opening and closing there mouths pretty wide and there gills.....
I will try skimming more often or for longer periods of time....the seachem buffer says its raises it to a safe 8.3 with the recommended about at one use.
Things seem to be getting more stable.....Im going to wait at least a week or two before adding the fish back
thank you

 

[casey7e]

Also
do you ever need to change clean or do anything to the sand....it just seems like it would be toxic after so many years.....I know not to stir it up or it will send the ammonia levels rocketing. But Im just wondering if another substance would be better for the sake of pollution. ...Crushed Coral....??

 

[Swanwillow]

I still say do a largish water change also: start with a good ole 30+% water change, and do 10% every other week. that would have made this problem null and void: the salt water that we use buffers the PH automatically, and the chances of this happening again in 3-4 months is pretty high...

 

[Swanwillow]

and cleaning the sand: lightly stir up a section while syphoning out a water change. think, a 3 inch square

 

[PatMayo]

If you are only changing water once every 3 or 4 months therein lies your problem. Poor husbandry. Adding top of water cannot substitue for frequent partial water changes. By just adding more water you are not taking out the nutrient buildup. Couple that with the once a month protien skimnming I'm willing to get you have a nutrient buildup that is killing your livestock.

I would suggest at minimum 20 % monthly water changes. Doing this everyweek is less stress than once a month but either way will suffice. I would run the skimmer 24/7 and make sure that it is turned properly and pulling out a bunch of skimmate. I would also feed pellet or frozen food that is cleaned every other day for awhile until you get things under control.

Based on the information that you provided that is probably the best course of action at this time. If it were my tank this is the course of action I would take.

Regards,

Pat

 

[ACBlinky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6984209#post6984209 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by casey7e
With all other test I meant that the levels were all fine in all of the tests I did

What Swanwillow was asking for is the actual levels. Telling us they're 'fine' gives us nothing to go on - the more information you provide, the more likely it is someone can help you figure out what went wrong.

I agree that skimming 24/7 is best, if you don't want to keep the skimmer on constantly it might be better to skim during the times when lights are off; at least this way the tank is getting skimmed half the time rather than only one week each month. More water changes will also help. If you're not skimming much, I'd do 10-15% weekly.

 

[casey7e]

Thank you
I will

 

[piranhaking]

Sounds like it may be high co2 levels. The co2 would cause carbonic acid, which would lower your ph. In regard to using crushed coral you would have many more problems out of it. Detritus would get trapped down in it and rot and you would have to stir it up often to keep it cleaned out. With sand all the junk stays on top and is much easier to remove. sounds like you have a gas exchange problem to me. if you have a glass top get rid of it. also a powerhead running near the surface creating surface disturbance will help greatly with gas exchange. The low ph combined with the labored breathing i think almost guarentees a gas exchage problem.

 

[casey7e]

that sound possible
I do have a glass top but with only floresants....If I dont keep a top on it I run the risk of my small children throwing things in (which has happened in the past.....I do have a 1" space at the front that is open....
thank you

 

[piranhaking]

what about only using glass strips on the part that is open and using eggcrate on the part that is actually under the lights. That way you get the protection of the glass with out the drawbacks. You could cover the whole tank with the eggcrate, and just sit the glass on top of it where needed. Also you could build a canopy for the tank and have it open in the back, that way the air can move, but it would be really hard to get anything in. If you need any help/advice on building a canopy let me know. I have worked in a cabinet shop for about 14 years so i have a little experience with wood working.