help me design a closed loop system for my 150

[ryanpal]

hey guys. i've been struggling with flow for a long time. it seems i just can't get it right w the powerheads. i think using a closed loop system will enable me to eliminate dead spots behind the rock work etc.

i have a 150 show tank with overflows on the right and left. this poses a big problem when trying to eliminate dead spots because there's essentially two corners.

i have a 30 gallon sump and each of my overflows hold 5 gallons each.

my first question is, can i have a closed loop system with my tank setup? i have overflows instead of drilled holes so does this pose a problem?

also, since the i have the oveflows make two corners would (should) i construct the pvc piping as follows?:

(the black resembles my tank structure from a top view and the red would be the pvc spray bar or similar)

any help is most helpful.

thanks!

 

[ryanpal]

any info from the build techies would be great.

each day i want to go this route more and more

 

[silverwolf72]

You can do a over the top closed loop it just requires that you prime it first. You can add extra outputs and cover them with plugs, this will leave open the option to move the outputs very easily.

 

[ryanpal]

when you say over the top you mean over the top of the back because i can't drill it right?

sorry for my lack of knowledge but when you say leave the option to move the outputs very easily what do you mean?

thanks for your reply

 

[old95er]

I had a 50 gallon with a 3/4" pvc closed loop that utilized an intake that came up from inside the tank, covered with a strainer, the PVC elbowed over the rim of the tank down to the pump, a Titamium T3, then back to the tank over the rim. The PVC travelled around the inside top fram of the tank, with one outled on each side and two outlets in the front. The flow was perfect. You could utilze an oceans motions 4 way to vary the flow pattern.

 

[ryanpal]

did either of you take any pics of your setup? i'd love to see how it was contructed

 

[old95er]

This is in the old 50 gallon, I still have it running empty as a quarantine tank.

The purple is for the closed loop, the white is the return for the sump.

As you can see, the PVC comes over the top of the tank and then follows the inside of the frame. I had 3/4" outlets open, but you could use nozzles that are available at any aquarium web site in their plumbing supply section.

On teh connection to the pump, use a true union, and ball valves so that you can shut off the supply, and disconnect the pump for service.

On the right side, you will see a vertical PVC pip that is used for filling the system with water.

Make sure to have the intake deep enough in the water so that when the you turn off your pumps, and the water level in the tank drops to fill your sump, that the strainer is below that lowest water level, or the cl will drwa air into it and will need to be reprimed. Also don't forget the strainer, or your will suck snails and fish into your closed loop.

 

[silverwolf72]

Not the best pictures

 

[ryanpal]

thanks for the pics guys.

i've continued my research and i stumbled across a thread with this pic:

now the benefit of this setup is that i wouldn't have to redo my rock setup. i actually have to do a rescape soon due to the addition of new rock last night, but i don't want to redo it and then do it another time once i finally get my closed setup up and going.

the issue i see with this is, where is all the flow for the bottom considering all the outputs are up top.

 

[ryanpal]

here's some actual pics of my tank with the overflows.

here i outlined the overflow in red

basically i'm not clear on how i should structure my pvc to ensure flow throughout the whole tank. the overflows make it tricky...along with it being a show tank (taller not wider)

 

[old95er]

don't worry about the flow

don't worry about the flow

The flow will get there. You want areas of lower flow where the fish can rest. If you have ever gone diving, you find that the flow is alot less in the canyons then at the surface of the reef, it is never equal.

I have a 120 with four outputs from my Oceans Motions and Dart, at the top of the tank and the upper middle, the flow is very strong. I can see the back of the rockwork from behind the tank, and there is definitely water movement and no dead spots, it is just a little less.

I also have the return from the sump outputs at the back right and left, pointed down about 45 degrees.

If I were you , I would use the OM 4 way, and use a strong pump like the Dart. You won't be sorry. The only thing is that you need to have two one inch intakes, or 4-half inch intakes that Y into the Dart's 2 inch intake. I drilled the back middle for the two one inch intakes.

Check out my red house for my build thread.

 

[ryanpal]

old95er, thanks for your reply. im checking out yoru build thread as i write this.

are there any other cheaper options for the pump? shelling out $200+ is a bit much after all the corals i bought ;]

also, i see you drilled holes in the glass...i don't think i want to go that route. what other options do i have available to me?

 

[old95er]

well, the drilling was not that difficult, but the tank must be empty.

the pump is one of the life forces of the tank as it provides the flow. I did alot of research and the Dart is definitely the way to go.

The other option would be to elbow over the top of the tank with four 1/2 inch pipes using a strainer on each and then creating a manifold so that eventually the 1/2 inch pipes lead to the one 2 inch intake on the dart. Home Depot has all the pipes and fittings, I spent some time there dry fitting different pieces until I got to what I wanted.

 

[silverwolf72]

If you design it similar to a HOB overflow no drilling required, just requires primming first

 

[fatboyjoe]

These are good ideas if noise is not an issue, I went from closed loop back to powerheads because the noise was unbearable. How about some maxijet mod first? see how they work.

 

[ryanpal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11705065#post11705065 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fatboyjoe
These are good ideas if noise is not an issue, I went from closed loop back to powerheads because the noise was unbearable. How about some maxijet mod first? see how they work.

noise eh? i'm glad you mentioned this. i had no idea about the noise level. are they all noisey?

i have maxijet mods (2 sureflows) and also have 2 koralias.

 

[old95er]

The dart is pretty much silent, another reason that I chose it.

 

[ryanpal]

wow i missed that you mentioned oceans motions. this piece of equipment seems pretty pricey too. can a scwd be used in place of this?

 

[old95er]

I had a squid and it ended up reducing flow. I am not sure if it can handle the Dart.

Nothing in this hobby is inexpensive. You have to expect at least $30 per gallon to set up, before inhabitants! If you want to have a relatively care-free and healthy system, then you should try to use the best designed components.

You could set up the Dart and then add the OM later. . .

 

[melev]

Your easiest option is to buy one pump and secure it to the overflow via a magnet, and have it flow across the back of the tank behind the rockwork.

A closed loop will work, but if that is your main target area, it just seems like a lot of work to me and something rather visible that clutters up the tank. A single powerhead should do what you need and stay mostly out of sight, as long as you set it up to where you can extract it for cleaning every 45 days.

Or you can definitely spend some money with these other options discussed.

My reef has the exact same situation, and has been that way for 3.5 years. I've thought about putting flow back there several times, but never have pursued it.