Help with goldflake angel

[flamehawk2]

SO I've had my beautiful GoldFlake Angel for 2 months now. QT'd in 40g breeder and then into the display. Had a concern about possible velvet so dosed DT with 2.0ppn copper for 30 days. Did a 70% Water change and 2 days later the quality is good with a small trace of copper (.5ppm) and 0 ammonia and nitrites with 50 nitrates. here's the deal....the GF has been glass surfing for a long time now. First in the 40g here I thought it was happening because tank was too small (ate very well while in 40g) and now in DT (625g's) where I thought it was because of the copper. He just hasn't stopped. Now in the last week, he has eaten less and less to point where I am concerned as he only ate a couple of pellets this morning and completely ignored frozen. So we now can rule out small tank space(40g qt) water quality, copper, any ammonia, nitrites or high nitrates. Next is to consider tank mates and any bullying though He is 7 "œ long and can hold his own. Besides an occasional light jousting with the 7 "œ blond naso which used to be the "œbig boy" in the tank and 4 1/2 inch emperor who was introduced at same time as GF, everything seems ok in that department. He does surf also after everyone goes to sleep which makes me think that perhaps he hasn't found a comfortable spot to rest in the rock. I look around though and there is still "œplace at the inn" which would accommodate him and his size. I'm at a lost as to what it might be but do know that if he keeps stressing like this, he wont' last much longer especially because its now impacting his appetite. I do have a 55g at the ready if I decide to take him out and treat with some general broad based bacterial/parasite mix(ie kanaplex/neoplasm/metroplex combo) or wait a little longer as he might just still be adjusting from the high copper level for 30 days. him surfing constantly is definitely a sign that something is wrong. Is it possible that he's just having a tough time adjusting to aquarium life as he is 7 inches which is quite larger then you usually see. BTW when he was eating I was feeding him sponge as well as a variety of other frozen and pellets mixed with selcon and angel sponge elixir. Let me add that all other fish in the 625g DT are behaving normally and eating well. REALLY COULD USE SOME SUGGESTIONS...if I lose this fish, which is my absolute favorite, it will probably mean the end of my passion for the hobby.....thank you

 

[HumbleFish]

I would run a poly filter to pull the remaining copper out of the water. It could be spiking up & down as copper leaches out of your rocks. Certain fish (especially angels) just can't tolerate copper (even low levels) after X no. of days.

 

[flamehawk2]

Have been using cuprisorb resin but will get some poly filter soonest. It's amazing that they are that sensitive even at these low levels. Btw I do have other angels ie emperor,queen,flagfin, and they are doing fine and eating. I do recognize however that "œFlakey" can still be more sensitive then them. He wants to eat as he goes for it but then turns away. Did eat a couple of pellets today and then spit out other pellets that he grabbed. Another big water change may also help. If he starts looking bad and not even trying to eat I may have to pull him and put him in pristine water. Lets hope not as that w/b stressful for Flakey, the fish and me as trying to get him out of a 625g tank w/ 400 lbs of Rick will be difficult. Fingers crossed and thank you!

 

[ThRoewer]

It's likely a neurosis. I've had that with single Dwarf Angels who went nuts alone, but never when I kept them in pairs.
Adults of these fish are usually found in pairs or harem groups, rarely alone. They actually rather pair with a different, closely related species than being alone.
Easy way to check is adding a mirror to a side of the tank and see how the fish reacts.

 

[flamehawk2]

Put the mirror up 15 minutes ago. Seems to be getting everyone's attention More the Goldflake then others. She seems to be flaring her dorsal fin and flashing sideways as she goes up against the glass. Seems to be a mating ritual of sorts as I've seen flame angels do something similar....the yellow tank is attacking it while She's spending more time in front of the mirror then the other fish. Now that you mention this possibility, it makes some sense as she was captured at a rather large size 7-8 inches and as an older adult or mature adolescent may have already paired off when separated. So she might be lonely for her mate as well as a bit neurotic as you suggest. The question is what to do about it now...how do I calm her down and more importantly get her eating again? I will still pull out as much copper as possible while we continue to figure this out....I assume I should keep the mirror there and see if it continues to impact her behavior in a good.....I'm concerned about the non eating though....Thank you for the tip and any more suggestions w/b very appreciated.

 

[flamehawk2]

Well...maybe not...the novelty has worn off and she’s back to glass surfing although at least for the moment at a slower pace....ugh....

 

[ThRoewer]

You could try adding a juvenile goldflake angel as a partner. But that isn't a guaranteed or quick solution as you had to quarantine the new one.
I always try to get my fish as juveniles so they acclimate better to tank life.
I also try to keep all my fish in pairs or groups if possible.
Most fish have a complex enough brain and sufficient intelligence to go crazy or even get depressed. And fish are individuals and each can have individual quirks, preferences, likes and dislikes,... And some fish have great memory and can remember quite well.
Fish cognition and psychology is unfortunately not widely enough recognized or accounted for in the hobby and that leads to a lot of problems for the fish and the hobbyists.

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[flamehawk2]

Indeed....I do have a small Flagfin in there from the same genius...they don’t pay much attention to each other although I have heard about them mating and producing hybrid’s in the ocean...

I’ve got to get him to eat or it will be game over....Although he did surf in 40g Qt, he ate like a pig so by process of elimination it has to be something that happened when he went into display.Water quality due to copper(readings today are 1.0 ppm copper and 0 for Ammonia and nitrites) or aggressive tank mates (some very occasional jousting but nothing like bullying or anything like it), adaption to aquarium life (to your point he’s larger...I took the risk because he was eating so well). So the only one I can do anything about is water quality. I can also remove him causing him and others more stress but if that s what it takes..so be it. It w/b really a challenge reintroducing him but first things first....save him or try all I can to do jus that!

 

[ThRoewer]

What is the fish doing at night? Still swimming or sleeping in a sheltered place?

Fixing the water quality is definitely a good idea but I'm a bit doubtful that it is the cause.
If the fish did better alone in the smaller tank then other environmental factors could also be in play.
It seems like the fish is currently in a positive feedback loop and somehow you need to snap it out of it.
One simple thing you could try is to keep the lights off for a day and completely darken the tank or room.

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[flamehawk2]

She pretty much glass surf’s all day and night, at least until 1 or 2 am which is when I go to sleep. I’ve not seen her really shelter in place in the rocks yet (maybe once) although I made sure that there was plenty of “room at the Inn” that would fit her comfortably. I noticed quite sometime ago that she didn’t react well to the lights while in 2ppm copper so since it is a FOWLR DT, the lights have been off for about 2 weeks and we try to darken the living area as early as possible. We do have to live though as the display tank is prominently place in our condo. When she was in the 40g breeder QT tank, she was in there with a smaller Queen angel. They got along well and still do in the DT. Queen is about 4”.

 

[ThRoewer]

Have you tried to catch the fish?
How does it react when you try to catch it?
Maybe moving it to a smaller tank would help to calm the fish.

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[flamehawk2]

He was glass surfing in the smaller Qt also. I do think though that I might have no choice but to put him in 55g QT tank that I have set up. I once tried to catch him in the middle of the night about a week ago. As I approached (hiding the long handled net,as my tank is deep as it is long), it sensed something was up and went and hid in the rocks...Haven’t tried again but suspect it w/b quite an ordeal. Just now she ate a bit of American reef HPD mix. It’s full of enrichEd vitamins and meds for treating internal parasites as I’ve seen some long stringy poop coming out of some of the fish including the GF. Could internal parasites be the issue? Have had fish with it in the past with no issues like this.....

I WANTED TO ALSO SAY THANK YOU FOR ENGAGING AND CARING WHILE WE TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT. ITS VERY APPRECIATED AND HOPEFULLY WE HAVE A HAPPY ENDING AND OTHERS CAN BENEFIT ALSO.

 

[ThRoewer]

If you have a trap or can improvise one you could use the mirror to lure it in. This worked quite well for me in the past. And it generally works even with fish you can't lure with food or those who are very careful and usually don't go into traps.

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[flamehawk2]

Would need a big trap! The emperor has now joined in on the glass surfing. This makes me feel that its environmental as they both are following each other around the glass. So copper continues to be the possibility here as it cant be that they both have the same individual ailment although it could be that the emperor is just copying/following the GF. That still doesn’t explain though why GF surfed in the QT tank before. f she doesn’t eat tomorrow then I think we’ll have to move her to the QT. This is a bit stressful for me too...perhaps I should go and do some surfing too....oh..beaches closed...

 

[ThRoewer]

The emperor might just think this is the latest game to play...
Could you take a video (please, not vertical) and post it to youtube to show how they behave in detail? Usually seeing it is better than just getting a description.

As for catching the fish:
- Prepare everything like net in place, canopy open, and so on.
- Make sure the tank is completely dark at night.
- If you have, get a strong LED torch or flashlight ready.
- Set your alarm to about the middle of the tank's night period, at least 3 hours after the tank was darkened.
- Turn all pumps off and all tank lights on at 100%
At that point the fish should be completely disoriented and with some luck, if it is out in the open, you might just be able to collect it with the net. If it is in a cave you may need the torch/flashlight to chase the fish out.
If it doesn't work the first night you may have to repeat it a day or two later.

 

[flamehawk2]

SOrry have never posted a video on YouTube and have tried here to no avail. I have posted on WhatsApp in the past. I’m going to try to get her out as she is as stressed out as ever tonight. Glass surfing and even going backwards as she turns first vertically an then horizontal. The emperor is now settled in the rock area and has calmed down.

 

[ThRoewer]

I think at this point it can be safely assumed that it is stress.
When you get the fish into the smaller tank keep the lights low for a while and see what that does.

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[flamehawk2]

Have had the lights off while in the 1st QT and then also the DT since couple weeks ago. I will continue in new Qt. He looked a bit more settled this evening in the DT as he went into the rocks at about 12:30 am....early for him...lets see what the morning brings and decide whether its time to move him...

THX AGAIN FOR ALL THE ASSISTANCE....

 

[ThRoewer]

Maybe try keeping the lights low or just blue for a while. Some fish prefer it dimmer and need to get used to brighter lights slowly.

 

[flamehawk2]

Well tried to feed her this morning and she did not eat. So yes in full day of light a put the net in...put some brine shrimp in the net and she went 1/4 way about 15m later and I snatched! No stress on her or anyone....she is now in the 55g (same exact parameters as display so put her right in) She’s swimming around passively & I’m sure wondering what the heck just happened! The room she’s in is dim and I will keep the lights off....

Now what?.....The quest to get her to eat and fatten her up.....