Host Anemone & lighting

[Planoi]

It is pretty much established that host Anemone need lots of light.

But I find "lots of light" quite subjective, I have been recommending most people over at my board to use either MH (for deeper tank) or PC (for shallower tank), and stay clear of NO.

However several people on my board are showing up saying that they are using about 5 NO bulbs (approx 200w) over a tank 2' high. Occasional feeding.

Unfortunately, they are keeping about 3 anemones in the tank (H.magnifica, H.crispa, S.haddoni) and are reporting great expansion and growth for all 3.

My question is, do you think this is an environment where the anemones will thrive (or survive)?

thanks,

Win

 

[rshimek]

Hi Win,

As long as host anemones are well fed, virtually any light regime will do.

As they get progressively starved, they need brighter and more light.

However, anemones expand for a number of reasons and several of them are not good news. If those three anemones are being kept together in a tank, I would suggest that these animals are inflating as an aggressive posture, and are in less good health that might otherwise seem the case.

How long has this situation been going on?

 

[Planoi]

I have asked 2 members and this is the info.
Case 1:

Tank:180g, 2' high
Light: 4 NO (40 watt ea.)

H.magnifica - two - 6 months
H.crispa - 6 months
S.Haddoni - 2 months

Case 2:

Tank:180g, 2' high
Light: 5 NO (40 watt ea.)

E.quadricolor - 3 weeks
H.crispa - < 1months
S.Haddoni - 2 months

The member reported that the anemones has increasingly started to reject feeding, which he attribute to recieving sufficient lights - thus less dependent on feeding.

 

[rshimek]

Hi Win,

The member reported that the anemones has increasingly started to reject feeding, which he attribute to recieving sufficient lights - thus less dependent on feeding.

Nope.... The anemones are starting to be significantly stressed because there are too many other potential aggressors in the tank. These animals will fight each other and these anemones in this small of a tank will most likely result in all of the anemones in each tank dying.

They always will feed, even in bright light, as this is there way of getting high quality food. They need to feed - there is no option. The light is used to give them supplemental nutrition when good food is not around. So, if they are not feeding, they are seriously disturbed and in trouble.

:strooper:

 

[rayjay]

I get puzzled by the "requirements" for anemones as much if not more than the others. Anyone visiting my web site knows that I use only NO lighting over all my tanks. I do use a lot of lights,(8) over my 90g reef, but they are all on timers, so all lights are on together for only two hours.
Dr Ron mentioned that when fed enough, strong lighting would not be necessary. However, I don't feed my Sebae directly at all. The tank gets fed only by the feedings of the fish twice daily.
I'm aware some of this food finds it's way to the anemone, but can't believe it's sufficient to negate the need for lighting.
I don't know the answers, but whatever is working has been working now for 7 1/2 years, the first 1 1/2 yrs were in a 30g with 4 NO's over the tank.
When I bought this creature, I had only the LFS employees for information until I bought a computer 2 1/2 yrs ago. I didn't know they were hard to keep or that they needed specific lighting or feeding.
I don't plan on tempting fate by getting another.

 

[rshimek]

Originally posted by rayjay

Hi,

.... I'm aware some of this food finds it's way to the anemone, but can't believe it's sufficient to negate the need for lighting.

It has to be or the animal will die.

All organisms are on an energy budget. Anemones can get income (nutrient energy) from a number of sources - direct feeding, indirect feeding (fish feces, drifting food, particulate material in the water (bacteria mostly)), some direct absorption of dissolved nutrients and zooxanthellae byproducts. Zoox byproducts are basically carbs only, so for growth the animal needs some sort of food.

All of the above sources have to sum to 100% of the needs for the organism to stay at status quo. Less, and it will shrink and my die. More and it grows, and may reproduce.

The fact that a lot of anemones die is reason enough to realize that most folks don't feed there systems enough. And... all the light in the world will not substitute for food if the animal doesn't have a nitrogen source for proteins.

 

[rayjay]

Thanks for your reply. The same must apply to my corals as well, as I don't feed them either.

 

[rshimek]

Hi,

If they are growing they must be being fed. Probably particulate material from your tanks.

They would grow faster and be in better health if they were fed directly.

 

[sir reefalot]

Hi folks!

Not sure if I'm following this link correctly.
I'm assuming by the above statements.

Hypothetically....
That If I had only 1 NO tube running over a 50 gal(just enough to see the creature). As long as I kept a host anemone well fed. It would thrive...?

If this is true... Then how much would you need to feed the above said anemone to equal 100% of the organism needs.
More than common nutrient exports can compensate for?

Reason I ask this.... most the time I read about someone having an anemone. They are constantly flamed for not having enough light to meet these creatures needs. When in fact they may be starving them to death. While trying to sustain there diminish with inadequate light levels. Instead of spending lots of money on light they should be increasing their feedings. Am I hopeless or am I on the right path? Thanks for your time and patience!

 

[rshimek]

Originally posted by sir reefalot

Hi

Hypothetically....
That If I had only 1 NO tube running over a 50 gal(just enough to see the creature). As long as I kept a host anemone well fed. It would thrive...?

Yes.

If this is true... Then how much would you need to feed the above said anemone to equal 100% of the organism needs.
More than common nutrient exports can compensate for?

This depends on both the type and quality of the food and the size of the anemone. They need a lot of food. To totally support an 5 inch diameter Entacmaea quadricolor by feeding, I would feed it the equivalent volume of a table spoon of Gamma Foods Lancefish (a higher quality fish food than, for example,
silversides) every other day. More food for bigger anemones such as the carpets and ritteris.

Instead of spending lots of money on light they should be increasing their feedings. Am I hopeless or am I on the right path?

Dead on!

 

[Heath Man]

Is there not a minimum amount of light needed, regardless of feeding? Surely one can't keep an E.Quad alive indefinitely in, say, a 90G with one NO strip light just by feeding heavily?

 

[JasonD]

HeathMan,

I would think that you need enough light to keep the zoothanthalle alive in the animal. With the algae the anenome will die.

Myself I have three 55 watt PC over my 45 gallon ritteri species tank and the animal is doing great.

I agree with Dr. Ron though that you have to feed the thing if you expect it to grow. Unfortunately it takes a little bit of time to get the anenome use to eating regularly since they seem to be starved during shipping. I think they have to adjust.

I think most people aren't successful with anenome's because they don't set up a specific environment for them. Try to make them live in a regular reef, and that can be tough to do with powerheads ready to eat them, and even some fish that will pick on them.

I love my Ritteri and couldn't imagine going without an anenome tank they are that cool.

Jason

 

[rshimek]

Hi,

Folks, you are not listening!

The animal needs nutrition, how it gets it is immaterial.

Zooxanthellae basically provide carbohydrate nutrition to anemones and nothing more.

Feeding provides carbs and proteins. This is all the animal needs...

If they are feeding, you can keep all host anemones in absolute darkness until they are bleached whiter than sheets, and they will live just fine. As long as they are fed. The algae are immaterial to the host as long as it gets enough nutrition.

 

[sir reefalot]

Thnx Dr. Ron...

Thnx Dr. Ron...

I think folks are really mislead on the lighting issue. That's why we seem so hard headed. I think you struck a very valid point. I am very interested in trying an anemone now. I think with your insight I may now be able to keep one that thrives!

Just think how dissappointing this hobby would become. If not for people like you setting us straight on issues like this. I think your doing a very great service for this hobby. I've worked for a pet store and know first hand how mislead folks can get.
Just wanted to take a moment to say
Thank you.

 

[mr9iron]

Thanks for the information Dr Ron. This has cleared up all kinds of questions for me. I see an anemone in my future.

 

[Erin]

Thanks for all the info Dr. Ron!! I'm so glad my little pale anemone can be happy and healthy.

Just a quick question. I know that your book says BTAs like krill, but I'm guessing I should be feeding a varied diet. I feed 3-5 1" krill every two to three days, after soaking them in Zoecon and Zoe for a few days. I just got some silversides last night to see if the anemone likes them. Any other suggestions?

Erin (*_*)

 

[JasonD]

Thats real interesting;

I just naturally assumed that without enough light even with feedings the Anenome would die.

I wonder if the same would apply towards SPS's. If you fed your tank enough could you keep SPS's alive say with just NO bulbs?


Jason

 

[Heath Man]

I'm listening, and I understand what you're saying. As long as it gets its nutritional requirements met it will live. But here's what I'm asking, while its possible to feed it directly and get the caloric intake it needs, would the death of its symbiotic algae not cause stress or throw the animal off in other ways that would cause it to go off feed and eventually die? It seems odd to me that anemones have such a low long-term life span in captivity if the only thing they needed was adequate food. Dr. Fautin's study showed an abismal record of longevity in captive anemones.

I guess what I'm wanting to absolutely confirm is, aside from the caloric needs that can be met in other ways than the algae, would keeping an anemone in low light not lead to its premature death from stress? Would losing the algae and bleaching it white not stress the animal and cause it to start rejecting foods? Or do you maintain that lighting is completely irrelevant to the success in keeping anemones? If so, what would you say is the leading cause of death in captivity (feeding seems unlikely as most people seem to err on the side of overfeeding their inhabitants, IMO)?

Thank you for helping understand this, I've always been curious about it.

 

[Erin]

Heath, I think Dr. Ron has already answered that.

He stated:

Feeding provides carbs and proteins. This is all the animal needs...

If they are feeding, you can keep all host anemones in absolute darkness until they are bleached whiter than sheets, and they will live just fine. As long as they are fed. The algae are immaterial to the host as long as it gets enough nutrition.

I think we're just all feeling sceptical because we've heard/read so much about the importance of lighting and zooxanthellae, so we panic when we hear that all we need to do is feed them. It seems too easy.

Erin (*_*)

 

[rshimek]

Originally posted by Heath Man

Hi,

...would the death of its symbiotic algae not cause stress or throw the animal off in other ways that would cause it to go off feed and eventually die?

No. It simply digests the algae.

It seems odd to me that anemones have such a low long-term life span in captivity if the only thing they needed was adequate food. Dr. Fautin's study showed an abismal record of longevity in captive anemones.

Daphne has not studied them in captivity. You might be referring the survey done by Joyce Wilkerson and analyzed by me.

It is no surprise they have short life spans in captivity. People simply don't feed the animals enough to keep them alive.

I guess what I'm wanting to absolutely confirm is, aside from the caloric needs that can be met in other ways than the algae, would keeping an anemone in low light not lead to its premature death from stress?

[size=huge]NO![/size]

Would losing the algae and bleaching it white not stress the animal and cause it to start rejecting foods?

[size=huge]NO![/size]

Or do you maintain that lighting is completely irrelevant to the success in keeping anemones?

Lighting is important if people don't feed them adequately. If they are adequately fed lighting is immaterial.

If so, what would you say is the leading cause of death in captivity (feeding seems unlikely as most people seem to err on the side of overfeeding their inhabitants, IMO)?

Your opinion is noted and wrong. These animals need a lot of food. A full grown ritteri to be growing and healty probably eats about the equivalent mass of a Big Mac every week or two.