Hydrogen peroxide vs red slime algae

[dg3147]

Is it true that it works for this? This is what I found searching the threads a bit:

"Whole tank dosing/1:10 dosing and submerged spot treatment are ran with a tank full of water. The easiest method involves the least work, its been used on giant tanks here, but contacts everything in the tank with peroxide so you have to be mindful of what's in the tank. 1ml per ten gallons dosed 3x times a week has never been shown to affect pods, benthic life or filter bacteria

I've read of people using 3 and 4mls per ten with faster kill and no collateral loss. I recommend 1:10 as a safe zone with decent efficacy.

How fast it works on the actual target ranges based on target...red brush algae might not be affected at all in this dilution...but bryopsis and gha and cyano and diatoms show excellent susceptibility to it in these doses after a while"

Anybody have thoughts on this? I have a mixed reef tank with every type of inhabitant u can imagine (including a fuge with chaeto)

 

[bertoni]

Some people have had good results with hydrogen peroxide. I don't know what the disaster rate is, but others have dosed with no bad or good results.

 

[brandon429]

I would not dose it unless you can find references in the peroxide thread that cover the corals/inverts you have
No need to jump off into new territory when someone else cataloged comparable stocking lists in the thread. it also covers methods of dosing that get none into the main tank.

Id be curious to know if you tried the standard methods first, why dose if some extra current and a couple days lights out works.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I too would be very cautious. There is no reason to think such a simple molecule will be specific for cyanobacteria over all kinds of other desirable bacteria and higher inverts.

IMO, there are better options, such as exporting more phosphate.

 

[brandon429]

Randy, if it wasn't selective and was ravaging other bacteria communities how would we measure that or quantify the loss?

 

[tmz]

I think it's very risky as an in tank method for the reasons Randy noted. Tanks are different and it will kill things indiscriminatley when a lethal dose is approached. There is no reason I can think of to beleive it will selectively work on cyanobacteria. It works fine in dips for some corals and when dribbled on brush algae out of tank, ime.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, if it wasn't selective and was ravaging other bacteria communities how would we measure that or quantify the loss?

Well, it might be hard. If one lost the nitrifers, ammonia or nitrite might rise. If one lost those that are consuming dosed organics, the levels of the dosed organic in the water would rise. If one lost denitrifiers, nitrate might rise.

Killing a lot of cyano at once also risks release of toxins from the cyano.

 

[brandon429]

That makes sense. +1 for physically siphoning out cyano before using anything to kill the original mass in the tank-including nutrient stripping, that still leaves a mass to die and degrade. To use it as a preventative clearly has good results.

 

[dg3147]

Mine is a familiar tail of red slime: zero phosphates since set-up 3 years ago, run GFO, refugium with macro, dose vodka 0.5 ml daily, MB7 5 drops dailly, and a MP40 x2 (75g tank), Lights are not old, water changes are pretty consistent.

Been a stalemate against red slime for 2 years or so. Lights out / red slime remover works for a week or so...then it rebounds.

Ready for the nuclear option.

 

[tmz]

.5ml vodka is not very much for 75 gallons.

 

[brandon429]

Dg why not test peroxide then, we have over 20 pages of people doing so. All theories aside, pics tell a tale. We are still searching for the limits of peroxides ability, we at least can say your worst case scenario is it won't work. Our giant thread shows no harm in the attempt anyway, pics start to become the dividing line between posit and actuality, we have a -lot- of cure pics. Can you post a full tank shot? Let's test a custom approach method for your tank right here, let's see how your after pics turn out

If your tank was mine, id have a UV sterilizer meant for a koi pond on it, no more cyano. It will prevent a regrowth after an initial removal, if flow and size is right, we have a cure example of this in the thread you pulled the quote from.

We can kill it with peroxide too. After the before pic, you would once more remove/siphon it all out, then dose peroxide as the rebound kill at a customized dose rate based on your pics and what's stocked in the tank. We would spot inject, underwater, a test patch initially to gauge its effect. Based on outcome, we take the next step.
I'm up for another challenge.

 

[tmz]

All theories aside, pics tell a tale. We are still searching for the limits of peroxides ability, we at least can say your worst case scenario is it won't work. Our giant thread shows no harm in the attempt anyway, pics start to become the dividing line between posit and actuality,

There are thousands and thousands of pictures of successful reefs without hydrogen peroxide.
Claiming it can't harm living things in some selective fashion makes no sense . Much of what it can do to organics and fauna is likely unseen. An overdose could easily wipe out a tank.
My tanks have no cyano, virtually no nuisance algae ,thriving bacteria and other microfauna and no risky peroxide dosing as do many others. So it's not theory vs. reality, though that's a convenient way to dismiss opposing views and knowledge that doesn't fit a favored notion.. It's a matter of sensible vs unnecessary high risk and likely harm.

 

[brandon429]

I asked for specifics to verify the harm you are sure of. Measurements for ammonia species are covered in the thread, if you have something more concrete to add go right ahead. you have already posted it killed your brittle stars, and we posted it doesn't, so I recommend you don't use it you have bad luck with brittle stars.

the posters in the thread do not lose pods/stars the only difference is we have after pics-showing thriving brittle stars. If anyone doubts our posted results, don't use the peroxide approach, its that simple.



The original poster should pick a method and see it through, let's track it.

Any way you spin it, success is featured in the thread across tanks and across invaders. Adding vodka to a reef is no more natural. there are successful tanks without peroxide, mines a success without vodka, what's the diff




By all means use all other methods first. We like saving tanks on the brink, its a recurring theme in the nanos peroxide thread. Don't use it if you can find and employ a better method.

Start off by using tmz's method, follow it exactly and have him guide you through to completion, let's watch. I like to find methods that work better than peroxide. tmz has one, he's up for your challenge and has the experience threads to show it...post pics let's watch him use something you haven't tried in two years.

What if someone overdosed vodka, or kalk, that's a faulty logic on dosing.

I monitor most peroxide threads and an overdose has not occurred. Make all the negative assumptions you want, people who actually use peroxide keep compiling results you discount. Its not for everyone, by all means use up ur liquor first in the name of all that's natural. At least we bother to collect pics and track long term follow ups, without that all we have is guesses.

pressing onward in the face of great results is fair game in development, what you need to do tmz is start an anti peroxide thread showing us how our results are wrong.

 

[karsseboom]

I dosed peroxide in my tank for 15 days straight. Stocked with sps and nothing bad happend. The corals were fine, fish were fine, nothing was harmed. It may be harmful but I took a chance and it helped.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dosed peroxide in my tank for 15 days straight. Stocked with sps and nothing bad happend. The corals were fine, fish were fine, nothing was harmed. It may be harmful but I took a chance and it helped.

Can you describe what exactly it did do?

 

[dg3147]

.5ml vodka is not very much for 75 gallons.

A little of topic but....

I agree with that 100%. The reason why I dose it like that is not the usual. My Nitrates are 0, and even without vodka they are close to zero as well. (also not that at higher vodka levels, my LPS started dying).

Oddly enough, it's not a nitrate issue for me. I dose vodka for coloration. Without vodka, my colors get brownish (most evident in my pink birdsnest). With that small dose, all the colors perk up.

I confirmed this by going back and fourth between with/without vodka a few times. The color change is valid and appears independent of NO3 levels.

 

[dg3147]

1) agreed, it could in theory affect non-targeted organisms. Ditto for lights out, antibiotics, and really most other methods.
2) agreed that in the wrong dose, H2O2 is toxic to nearly all organisms.
3) agreed that is small doses, it is likely totally harmless. It could also be ineffective.

What we want to know is this:

1) In a mixed reef, Has anyone used it successfully in direct tank dosing against cyano? What dose/method? Any clear damage to other organisms?
2) Anecdotal/ Documented success?
3) Anecdotal / Documented failures?

 

[dg3147]

Can you describe what exactly it did do?

Ditto. And what was the nuisance algae/cyanobacter/diatom?

 

[brandon429]

Yes page 8 windy ridge's tank it was a broadcast treatment plus UV on a mixed system.

I didn't know vodka could affect sps coloration, if it helped in that way id consider trying it a while in my system just to look for something new to try.

Why not test inject a spot of cyano underwater, what bleeds off will be inconsequential. if what's in the thread isn't enough nothing beats self verification. Post pics

 

[tmz]

I have no intention of starting an anti peroxide thread. I use it for dips but would caution strongly against dosing it into a tank,period unless I wanted to raise the O2 level for some reason and them close monitoring would be required.
The whole premise of selctive irradication is just baseless and risky;, like dosing ozone without control. The oxygen level is going up at some point it burns things.The fact that it's an oxidant and disinfectant means it kills stuff including mini brittle stars,luck has nothing to do with it. Sarcasm and unctuous comments won't change that.


Undoubtedly it kills untold numbers bacteria and microfuana and larger organisms at certain levels. What are they? Are there proper done lethality studies. What organics does it break up? What metals does it realese? Pouring it in folks tanks which are highly variable hardly qualifies as experiment.

I can show you many tanks including my own if you wish that function without nuisance algae,cyano or dosing them with peroxide,bleach, jet fuel or any other toxic substance. BTW I have no proof that jet fuel kills stuff since I've never put it in my tank either but I think it can be harmful . Some peroxide in a tank just ups the oxidation. What level is lethal for what is clearly unknown. It is dangerous and hurtful overall to recommend this type of fix to cover other systemic issues.

I've helped hundreds of folks with specific tank issues and will continue to do so. Part of that is criticizing nonsense like "viva peroxide " it'll fix all your problems and will only kill what you want it to kill if you let me lead you pitches Sad really. I'm sure you'll get some followers if you keep arduously recruiting them but not many who have any sense of reef chemsitry and the organics in a reef.

Folks are free to make their own choices of course.

So you have a 5 gallon tank you drain it dry and periodically pour peroxide on the rocks and refill it and have no algae and it still retains enough biofilter to function,big deal.
I don't know how all the successful tanks in this hobby ever made it without dosing peroxide; do you? These tanks are not immune from nuisance algaes and other pests, the good ones balance import and export and overcome those problems with nutrient control and solid husbandry. Acetate is quite natural an useful to living things btw, so are facultative heterotrophic bacteria. But there's no point in discussing this further. s Obviously you've found your elixir and just don't want to know what you don't know.

Finding it helps turf algae in out of tank dips is a good thing. Indiscriminately dosing tanks no matter how much cynao or nuisance algae they have with it is not,imo.