I’m sad to admit it, but I am yet another victim of my LFS. Please help…

[Brandon M]

I am frustrated because I feel the LFS I have been working with the past couple months has lead me in the wrong direction. Many of the things they suggested I do/use have contradicted the advice from the wonderful people on this forum. Anyways, hereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s my adventureââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

Around six weeks ago, before I knew of ReefCentral , I started making some trips to the LFSââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s in my area and was pondering the idea of starting a saltwater fish tank. Well, three weekââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s ago I ended up purchasing a 72 gallon bow front reef ready tank with stand and canopy. I also bought, as a package deal, a Mag 7 pump, 250 watt heater, 75 gallon wet/dry sump, lights, live sand, and skimmer. The LFS came out and set this system up for me, and the day after it was set up I went back to buy live rock and more live sand.

I have now had 70 lbs of live rock and live sand in my tank for almost two weeks to begin to cycle it. I need to say, I do want a FOWLR tank. Now my questions are:

1. The LFS used tap water to mix and fill my tank, they also said I could use tap water to top of my sumpââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦how bad is this? What are the disadvantages to this? Do I need an RO/DI unit? What are some other options besides RO/DI?

2. I do live in an apartment, and donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have room for a QT. How bad is this going to be? Is QT absolutely necessary since Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m only doing FOWLR?

3. I tested my water last night with these readings:
a. Nitrate = 12.5
b. Nitrite = Under 0.3
c. PH = 8.3
d. Ammonia = 0 or very close to 0
e. SG = 1.026
f. Temperature = ~79
How much estimated time do I have in my cycle? Are there any other tests I should check? What conditions should I look for before I add my first fish?

4. From what Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve read, when going through the cycle, algae gets crazy. I have seen little to no algae build up in my tank. The water is very clear, and has been for the 2 weeks its been set up with LR and LS. Is this a sign that my cycle is not complete?

5. When cleaning my tank, I should clean the blue sponges in the sumpââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦correct? Should I use tank water to rinse these out? Or is tap water okay?

6. I have not done a water change since I began my cycleââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦is this okay?

7. Should I buy pre-mixed saltwater from my LFS to add to my tank after water changes? Or should I just mix my own?

Thank you very much for all the help, I greatly appreciate it. Sorry for all the questions, I am doing my best to go very slow and learn as much as I can before I jump into adding fish to my tank.

Here are some pictures of my setupââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

 

[Freed]

Plain tap water can have lots of impurities in it that will feed algae, ie., phosphates maybe which algae lives off of and may have copper and other unwanteds in it. I would buy an RO/DI unit which will actually save you money in the long run over buying the water at the LFS.

QT is the best thing you can do to keep ALL of the fish disease free. Just because you have a FOWLR doesn't mean that the fish can get by with a disease here and a disease there which could be/ will be introduced with any new fish you buy from the LFS and don't forget that just because the LFS has had that fish you want so desperately to have in your fish tank and has had it for a few days or a few weeks and it looks so healthy doesn't mean that it doesn't have any parasites or other diseases that you can't readily see just yet. QT ALL new fish for at least 4-6 weeks to observe and treat any diseases that you notice in this time frame. It sometimes takes ich and velvet a few weeks to show themselves. That is why QT is so necessary.

 

[Brandon M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6922785#post6922785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
Plain tap water has lots of impurities in it that will feed algae, ie., phosphates maybe which algae lives off of and may have copper and other unwanteds in it. I would buy an RO/DI unit which will actually save you money in the long run over buying the water at the LFS.

This is really what I thought and just wanted to make sure. Can you suggest a unit that would work well with my 72 gal?

 

[Freed]

There are many out there that will do just fine. Do a search here on RC for RO/DI units now while you can search because in a few hours you won't be able to search as tons of people will be doing the same thing. I have a Kent Marine 60gpd Hi-S Maxxima which does a great job but you can find others that are comparable that cost much less. Try www.buckeyefieldsupply.com for good units at low cost too.

EDIT: You will also want to get a hand held TDS meter(maybe $20 or so on line somewhere) that will show you how much Total Dissolved Solids are in your RO/DI water if you do end up getting one. This will let you know when you need to change the RO membrane as well as the DI cartridge, etc.

 

[JR719]

Have to agree with Freed. As far as RO/DI suggestions, right now I just use a 6 stage that is connected to a little tap on my sink (ebay 99 bucks). Partially fill a 33 gal container with a pump in it for mixing salt (and a heater). Plus have good drinking water.
You might go pick up a 29 gallon, give or take for QT. You can treat your fish if you notice anything without harm to the rest of the tank.

 

[orionsmamma]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6922785#post6922785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
Plain tap water can have lots of impurities in it that will feed algae

In alot of areas, the tap water is really bad. However, in some area's, the tap water is just fine to use in your tank....It all depends. I cant tell you if the LFS made a mistake or not. It seems like they could have made more money off of you buy using RO/DI water, or premixed saltwater than using your tap water though.

Have you found a reef club in your area? If not, I suggest doing so. Ask them how they feel about the tap water in that area, and chances are someone will know a bit about it. Some people have had success finding out what is in thier tap water by contacting the city, but I honestly wouldnt know how to tell you to go about that.

I second the quarentine; you should have a second tank on hand for that. It could be something as simple as a 10/20 gallon tank that you do small daily water changes on. Toss a powerhead in there, change a gallon or two a day, and it should suffice to quarentine the fish for a couple weeks. Toss some pieces of PVC in there to serve as hiding spots for your fish. Its super easy to clean up and store when you are not using it if you dont have any substrate or rock in there.

As for mixing your own saltwater, thats up to you. a refractometer is usually prefered to the plastic swing arm hydrometers to test salinity btw.

HTH

Donna

 

[Roughhawk]

@99Hawk
i'd just read you posting the third time and i'm just wondering why you feel that you are a VICTIM of your LFS...

IMO all looks fine right now !
To use tapwater for the first filling of a new tank is possible---but a controversy since YEARS!!

i would sugest to circle the tank for at least 8 weeks... even if the watervalues are as good as yours right now!!

I NEVER had a QT...and never hat ill fishes BUT imo it's really dangerous to do so--but you kow:"no risk no FUN"

So stay calm and watch you tank and maybe start to put some "easy" animals in there during the next few weeks!!

 

[Brandon M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6922828#post6922828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roughhawk
@99Hawk
i'd just read you posting the third time and i'm just wondering why you feel that you are a VICTIM of your LFS...

IMO all looks fine right now !
To use tapwater for the first filling of a new tank is possible---but a controversy since YEARS!!

i would sugest to circle the tank for at least 8 weeks... even if the watervalues are as good as yours right now!!

I NEVER had a QT...and never hat ill fishes BUT imo it's really dangerous to do so--but you kow:"no risk no FUN"

So stay calm and watch you tank and maybe start to put some "easy" animals in there during the next few weeks!!

I feel as though many of the things they have told me has not been true or has not been the best way to do things. It's frustrating.

Thank you very much for the help though, I appreciate it.

 

[Roughhawk]

really bro...all looks ok for me!!

whats the tank size?? 4'??
The LR & LS looks nice and maby a little TO clean ..does there anything LIFE?? Has there been any algea growth or so??

Again to the water...i know alot of guys using water from the tap... in MY area (my apartment) the water is that BAD i'll NEVER EVER would use it because there is way to much kh (14) and copper (0,3mg/l) in it... so i'm just wondering if the lfs-guy had someway tested YOUR water?! If not he should be good at divination ;( because watervalues change when you got eg new pipes in your hause (new copper) or because you got water from a different source than they!!

So I use RO AND desalination (SORRY don't know the word in english) to pimp my water :rollface:

 

[jawaiianmon]

deionization roughhawk? I use the ebay RO/DI and I like it a lot. I believe the company is Aquasafe.

 

[Roughhawk]

yes sir --- deionization...

Thanks jawaiianmon!!

 

[SVXH6]

i'd ditch those bio balls in time though..

 

[Swanwillow]

hi- and welcome.. I was taught how to do the sign, but... ha, forgot how...

I'd also take out 'blue sponges'

I live in an apartment, and can't really justify using an RO/DI... that said, I've never had one, and don't know if I'll be getting one. Your LFS sounds decent so far, just don't let them push you into fish purchases that shouldn't go in your tank

without an RO/DI unit, you just have to get used to algae blooms. Someone asked me about what the differences were in my experience using tap: I can't keep some corals, while anemones take off... but thats a whole nother disscussion. BUT YOU HAVE TO GET USED TO ALGAE!!!!!!!!!! the blooms are bigger than in an RO/DI tank, but as long as you let them happen and don't freak out about cyano, diatoms, and the other 'nasty' algae, you'll be just fine.

I ran my fisrt few tanks without QT... that said, I lost a dwarf fuzzy lionfish to nematodes. I had him maybe, 2 months. didn't infect my other fish, but that was probably luck.

you may want to post a list of types of fish you want eventually NOW, so we can either rip ya apart, or help you tweak it with ideas (ok, just tweak it, not rip ya apart)

and have fun!!!!

 

[wfrost]

A lot of people still use tap water and fight the Algae, I did, but I found a LFS close buy that sells RO/DI salt water for .50 a gallon and gives away regular RO/DI water. Another sells RO/DI saltwater for 1.50 a gallon look around. And good luck, and dont stress out its just a hobby.

 

[reverendmaynard]

There's a DI unit at Drs Foster&Smith you can get for about $30. It comes with an adaptor that you can screw onto the end of a faucet, wiith a little hose barb on it for the filter. It's only one stage, about 15" high, 4" around, and you jut pull the hose off the adaptor and store it away when your not using it. Each cartridge is good for about 100 gals, and they cost $15-20 each.

Low start up cost, but more expensive to run. It does solve some of the space issues over a permanently installed 6 stage RO/DI, and there's no waste water. And, it makes water much faster (10gph).

 

[Sk8r]

Ro/Di is convenient, however: I live on the third floor of an apartment in an area where water is not reliable, and it sure beats hauling it up 3 flights of stairs. You also reduce the number of things that are likely to be wrong if you're having a problem---and if it's anything like our local water, it's worrisome...(3 boil orders in town this year that I recall, plus the city installing new pipe, with all that entails.... Back in Oklahoma we discovered one suburb's water contained an 'acceptable' level of arsenic.) Once you have a considerable investment in your tank, the cost of a RO/DI unit becomes minor in comparison to the cost of a major water glitch-up from your city. But you can call your water department and ask for a statement of what their tests show.

 

[chemisfun11]

The one thing I've learned in this hobby, is that you have to discover what works for you and your tank. There is no formula, or instructions specific enough to guide anyone through the hobby. Do your research, ask questions, learn your tank/system...everyones is different.

 

[Freed]

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="100"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

 

[Brandon M]

Thank you for all the help, I think I will look into a RO/DI system...it looks like it will be benefitical for my tank in the long run.

 

[smy168]

some quick advice...stop buying LS, if it's packaged it's garbage. LS in a bag on a shelf in stasis with no temp control and no oxygen is just wet sand. The LR can help you seed the sand better than anything that can be packaged. My friend is a bio-chemist and he did a test of the packaged stuff in a lab and came back to me with nothing alive in the bag, just wet sand.

People are prone to buy these "well marketed" garbage because they assume it's live but really, how does anything stay alive with no oxygen and no temp control?

I'm in NYC and alot of people here just use a faucet filter like Brita, it can work just as well. i use to use the RO/DI but it waste soooo much water that I don't use it anymore. My 125 uses Great Bear Spring water, and my smaller systems use Poland Spring. if you use store bought water then just make sure the water wasn't distilled trough copper pipes.

good Luck