I'm new to the hobby and my tank crashed help please.

[Jturner90g]

I have a 90 gallon tank. Details as follows:

Tank is 3 months old and cycled with damsel's/ live rock

I do a water change every Friday of 25 gallons which is roughly 30%

-marine land C530 canister: 4 levels bottom is a course filter next up is charcoal just switched it but cannot remember the type it was. Next is bio balls. Last is ceramic tube like thangs than filter floss
-2 power heads one small one medium cannot remember the brand but they're cheap and picked them up from my LFS
- deep blue 300W heater (replaces the old 200W because I thought it had shorted and killed the fish but I will get to that) the water temp is at 77°F
-120lbs of live rock
40lbs of course live sand
40lbs of finer pink fiji love sand
Lighting is a 48in long T5 with a blueish black light along with moon light LED's. Schedule for that is this
6am (when I leave for work) I cut on the blue light and cut off moon light. When the wife wakes up she cuts on the white light and leaves the big blue on. When the sun begins to go down around 6ish I cut on their evening light (by cutting off the white light) and it stays on till about 9pm than the evening light comes off and moon light till 6am repeat

Water perimeters and doses
-I dose prime (2ml) every other day
- along with stability by seachum (9 capfuls as directions advise 1 cap per 10 gallons plus a little extra to make up for the 5 gallons the canister holds

Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
Calcium: 420ppm
Alkalinity:185
pH: 8.1

Feeding schedule (all feedings are done at 5pm)
Monday: pellets about 20-30 enough that each fish gets a good amount
Tuesday: nothing
Wednesday: frozen food mixed with reef roids for the coral that came on some live rock
Thursday: nothing
Friday : pellets
Saturday: only frozen food
Sunday nothing
Repeat

I replaced algae strips twice a day. In the morning and In the evening

What was in the tank:
2 mocha brown clown fish
1 naso tang
1 blue hippo tang
1 yellow tang (was going back to the LFS the next morning but he died with the rest)
3 fire gobies
1 bar goby
1 coral beauty

(All corals came on live rock I had purchased from the LFS)

Colt coral
Green button polyp zoanthid

Anemones:
1 condi
1 green Bubble tip
1 rose bubble tip

Clean up crew:
12 hermit crabs
12 snails- 4 Trocus 7 turbo
4 nasarious snails
2 cleaner shrimp
2 peppermint shrimp to eat some aptasia. They were going to be returned after it was gone.

Now for what happened....

Two weeks ago we realized our blue hippo tang had gotten ick. And so we began treating the tank for it. We bought a product called kick ick that is reef safe. We began dossing it as directed from the bottle. Well two weeks later she still had ick and now the coral beauty has it. But the blue hippo was very stressed. No clue why the yellow tang would mess with her but only when there wasn't any algae strips so we kept it stocked with them. The next day the water is kinda of hazy. Not clear but not like you disturbed the sand bed. This is Saturday btw I had just done a water change the day prior. But I assumed it was nothing and carried on. That night we noticed dory not doing well at all and we accepted that she was going to pass away.. and before she did the coral beauty passed. Once she did it started a domino affect. The healthiest fish being the yellow tang does right after and one by one they all died. It took 2 hours... we waited till about 1am to pull the fish out. Today I noticed my heater makes a click when it comes on and cuts off. So I call the LFS they said that's not normal bring it in we will swap it out and give you the one appropriate for your tank no extra cost. Very well we did that and here I am. Clueless. All of my inverts are alive. Anemones are very stressed but I believe they may pull through. Snails and hermits are all alive. We only lost the shrimp. Those are the only inverts we lost.

If anyone has any ideas what could have happened please let me know. I thought it was the heater but it would have shocked me when I reached in to retrieve the fish. It wasn't a sickness I don't think because they all kicked the bucket at the same time. Hands don't go into the tank unless they absolutely need to go it. I don't use lotion. Or cologne. I use windex to clean the tank but I open the bottle and pour it into a paper towel. When my hands go into the tank I rense them for about a minute under the hottest water my sink puts out. And I rinse to my shoulder just about. Just depends on the task I have and reason for my hands going in..

This is all the info I believe is pertinent to my tank. Please if anyone has answers please tell me. Btw yes all the inverts are back on the tank but are moving slowly and the anemones aren't secreatingnanything but have barely attached them selves to rock. But they are moving about the tank.


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[dz6t]

I'm new to the hobby and my tank crashed help please.

There are several things I can see:
1. Why do you dose prime? It is only for treating tap water before you mix salt.
2. Kick ich is NOT reef safe and it does not work.
3. When your old heater broke, it might contaminated all your live rock.
4. You have way too many fish for a new tank.


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[Jturner90g]

There are several things I can see:
1. Why do you dose prime? It is only for treating tap water before you mix prime.
2. Kick ich is NOT reef safe and it does not work.
3. When your old heater broke, it might contaminated all your live rock.



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Because I use tap water it's all I can use for right now and it also keeps nitrates down. Having a canister filter it farms nitrates.

Kick ick is what I was recommended by my LFS being that I had corals on the love rock and it was living very well

How would it have contaminated it. I saw no cracks. And no water was in it. I believed it had short circuited at first but than realized it never shocked me when I put my hand it to grab it and look at it. After it was unplugged and the blue light was off and I pulled it out of the tank to examine it started steaming but my water in the tank was only 78° not enough for me to fret.


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[dz6t]

You only need to use prime to treat the tap water, not dosing directly to the tank. Not regularly as well.



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[Jturner90g]

You only need to use prime to treat the tap water, not dosing directly to the tank. Not regularly as well.



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Very well, the bottle says other wise that is why I did it.


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[Bill_Moorman]

Wow. Sorry that this happened to you. It truly sucks when things go south.

First question- why are you dosing prime and stability daily?

Second question- Have you read the sticky about treating crypto (marine ich)?

The most important thing right now is that your system is fishless. You'll need to leave it that way for 72 days (what's commonly referred to as a fallow period). This is so that the crypto starves out and cannot infect fish again.

Since you want to keep the tank cycles, you'll need to feed every few days (this will keep your inverts alive). You don't need to take out any of the inverts or corals, as crypto cannot infect them. Don't add any snake oil (any crypto meds that claim to be reef safe). All you need is time.

Once you hit 72 days, your tank will be good to go. However, if you do not QT and prophylactically treat new additions, you can assume you will reintroduce crypto to your tank and your fish will likely become reinfected.

I recognize this doesn't help you figure out what happened, but it might help you restart. If I had to guess, the water becoming cloudy is was a bacteria bloom that took all of the oxygen out of the water, and your fish likely suffocated.

Good luck!

BM


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[Bill_Moorman]

Because I use tap water it's all I can use for right now and it also keeps nitrates down. Having a canister filter it farms nitrates.

Kick ick is what I was recommended by my LFS being that I had corals on the love rock and it was living very well




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Prime doesn't keep nitrates down. It just chemically alters them to make them less deadly to your fish. The only way to keep nitrates down is nutrient export (WCs, corals, macro algae).





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[Jturner90g]

Wow. Sorry that this happened to you. It truly sucks when things go south.

First question- why are you dosing prime and stability daily?

Second question- Have you read the sticky about treating crypto (marine ich)?

The most important thing right now is that your system is fishless. You'll need to leave it that way for 72 days (what's commonly referred to as a fallow period). This is so that the crypto starves out and cannot infect fish again.

Since you want to keep the tank cycles, you'll need to feed every few days (this will keep your inverts alive). You don't need to take out any of the inverts or corals, as crypto cannot infect them. Don't add any snake oil (any crypto meds that claim to be reef safe). All you need is time.

Once you hit 72 days, your tank will be good to go. However, if you do not QT and prophylactically treat new additions, you can assume you will reintroduce crypto to your tank and your fish will likely become reinfected.

I recognize this doesn't help you figure out what happened, but it might help you restart. If I had to guess, the water becoming cloudy is was a bacteria bloom that took all of the oxygen out of the water, and your fish likely suffocated.

Good luck!

BM


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Anything at this point is helpful, I did mention a bacteria bloom to my LFS but they said that it wouldn't have killed all the fish in thatbtwo hour Window. Everyone was healthy and swimming along and enjoying life until BOOM dead.

Also the tank is remaining empty for a while except the corals and inverts. But Ich wasn't the cause of death. It was only one two of the fish that I could tell. I know once it's in the lungs it's game over and I have done a fair amount of research on it. And that is why my tank temp was set to 76-77 was to speed up the life cycle. But I will wait the 72 days. Meantime I'm setting up a bare quarantine tank.

Again prime was to neautualize the nitrates from my canister

No I haven't read it sticky on it. I'm new to this forum I was just looking for some possible answers. But I will go read it. I did a fair amount of research once I realized we had it.

And thank you for your reply anything is helpful.


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[Bill_Moorman]

Totally. Glad to offer some help.

Bacteria blooms do, in fact, have the capability of killing everything within hours. Considering that your fish were infected with crypto, and it did make its way to their gills, it is very likely that's what the culprit was.

Think of it like this, little bugs that make your lungs less effective are attacking you, and you are on the top of Mount Everest, where there is significantly less oxygen available. 2+2 is equaling 4 here.

I'd completely ditch the canister filter (you don't need it for a reef tank) get a few battery powered air pumps (great for power outages) and do a large scale water change.

Since you are planning to go fallow, keep the temps where they should be (78-80 is common). Crypto is different than ich, and it's not been scientifically vetted that increasing temps hastens their life cycle. Like I said, plan to go fallow for 72 days. Don't try to short cut it. Nothing in this hobby goes fast. Except the money in your wallet lol


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[Jturner90g]

Totally. Glad to offer some help.

Bacteria blooms do, in fact, have the capability of killing everything within hours. Considering that your fish were infected with crypto, and it did make its way to their gills, it is very likely that's what the culprit was.

Think of it like this, little bugs that make your lungs less effective are attacking you, and you are on the top of Mount Everest, where there is significantly less oxygen available. 2+2 is equaling 4 here.

I'd completely ditch the canister filter (you don't need it for a reef tank) get a few battery powered air pumps (great for power outages) and do a large scale water change.

Since you are planning to go fallow, keep the temps where they should be (78-80 is common). Crypto is different than ich, and it's not been scientifically vetted that increasing temps hastens their life cycle. Like I said, plan to go fallow for 72 days. Don't try to short cut it. Nothing in this hobby goes fast. Except the money in your wallet lol


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Didn't realize there was a difference I was only treating for the ick. And I do understand how ick works. The life cycle and how it multiplies. And when your window is to kill it during the life cycle. And yes the tank will remain as it sits. And we did a second water change this morning again 30%. I have an airator I will add after this post.


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[BrianD]

The best advice would be to slow way, way down. A reef tank is a massive balancing act. The more you have to balance, the more complicated the hobby becomes. The age of a tank allows nature to provide help in that balance.

You have stocked the tank very early with large fish (tangs) that require more space than the 90 can provide. You also stocked the tank with a dwarf angel that requires a mature tank for grazing. Additionally, without even considering the size requirements of a Naso in the best of circumstances, you stocked it with two other tangs in a relatively small tank. Hepatus tangs are notoriously shy and skittish, and yellow tangs can be a bully. All of that = stressed out pooping machines, further diminishing that "balance".

As for the anemones, mature tanks are required to keep them.

Patience is a virtue in this hobby. Check out the threads/stickies in New to the Hobby, and ask for input for your next planned stocking choices. People are here to help.

The choices you have made are very common in the hobby. Anemones/clown fish/large showy tangs are always draws that get people into the hobby. I don't mean anything to sound negative, I only want to help (as others do).

 

[Jturner90g]

The best advice would be to slow way, way down. A reef tank is a massive balancing act. The more you have to balance, the more complicated the hobby becomes. The age of a tank allows nature to provide help in that balance.

You have stocked the tank very early with large fish (tangs) that require more space than the 90 can provide. You also stocked the tank with a dwarf angel that requires a mature tank for grazing. Additionally, without even considering the size requirements of a Naso in the best of circumstances, you stocked it with two other tangs in a relatively small tank. Hepatus tangs are notoriously shy and skittish, and yellow tangs can be a bully. All of that = stressed out pooping machines, further diminishing that "balance".

As for the anemones, mature tanks are required to keep them.

Patience is a virtue in this hobby. Check out the threads/stickies in New to the Hobby, and ask for input for your next planned stocking choices. People are here to help.

The choices you have made are very common in the hobby. Anemones/clown fish/large showy tangs are always draws that get people into the hobby. I don't mean anything to sound negative, I only want to help (as others do).

Thank you, and lessons learned. The wife isn't happy but we are waiting to put any fish in it. And starting over with some damsel's in a couple of months to make sure everything is copasetic than moving on to Nemo's. I thought I was on top of everything always checking the water, flow, lighting. Not over feeding. And yes I'll never own another yellow tang. Ever. He shat so much.. as for the coral beauty, she would eat off the algae strip with the tangs, and also eat hair algae that had grown on the rocks. I assumed I was safe to add the fish. With caution and with pressure from the wife and I obviously easily have into her... won't do that next time.


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[BrianD]

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I would like to have a fraction of the money I wasted on poor decisions when I first started in the hobby.

 

[billdogg]

^^^The BrianD - he is wise^^^

Please do read (and reread) the sticky at the top about treating Ich. You seem to have a couple misconceptions about it. Firstly, it is a parasite with a definite obligatory lifecycle. It will attach to the gills first (not lungs - fish don't have any). By the time it shows up on the body of a fish it is pretty well infested with them. Once ANY fish shows signs of Ich, they all have been exposed and should be treated.

There is NO reef-safe remedy. Period. It can be treated effectively only in a Hospital/Quarantine tank. The sticky goes in to great detail on how to do this.

Although temperature can be used to hasten the life cycle, 76-77 is considered a normal temp by most reefers. I keep my tank at 76. 84+ is where you need to aim for if using that as part of your plan. The downside to that is that most of the good creatures in your tank will not like it very much, and it leaves little room for error due to a decrease in dissolved oxygen in the water.

I'm not trying to be critical at all - I made the very same mistakes in the early days, but that was over 30 years ago - before the internet! and the seemingly endless information it can provide.

As to the LFS willing to sell you all of that livestock so quickly and so not a good combination in your tank - I'd look for another.

 

[Jturner90g]

^^^The BrianD - he is wise^^^

Please do read (and reread) the sticky at the top about treating Ich. You seem to have a couple misconceptions about it. Firstly, it is a parasite with a definite obligatory lifecycle. It will attach to the gills first (not lungs - fish don't have any). By the time it shows up on the body of a fish it is pretty well infested with them. Once ANY fish shows signs of Ich, they all have been exposed and should be treated.

There is NO reef-safe remedy. Period. It can be treated effectively only in a Hospital/Quarantine tank. The sticky goes in to great detail on how to do this.

Although temperature can be used to hasten the life cycle, 76-77 is considered a normal temp by most reefers. I keep my tank at 76. 84+ is where you need to aim for if using that as part of your plan. The downside to that is that most of the good creatures in your tank will not like it very much, and it leaves little room for error due to a decrease in dissolved oxygen in the water.

I'm not trying to be critical at all - I made the very same mistakes in the early days, but that was over 30 years ago - before the internet! and the seemingly endless information it can provide.

As to the LFS willing to sell you all of that livestock so quickly and so not a good combination in your tank - I'd look for another.

Thank you for the advice. And it's the only LFS with in 50 miles of me unfortunately... and I was really hoping to run into somebody with way more knowledge than my self. I appreciate everyone's input and I understand it isn't aimed to hurt me and yes I inownfish have gills not lungs. I'm not a complete retard :'D but thank you for your input I have read it but as advised I will go re read it.

Everyone thanks again or your input.


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[billdogg]

Where are you located? There are quite a few local clubs where you can pick up some great information and meet like-minded reefers.

 

[Jturner90g]

Where are you located? There are quite a few local clubs where you can pick up some great information and meet like-minded reefers.

North Carolina. Many fish stores in Raleigh and Wilmington. I'm on the coast... I'd imagine more but there aren't.


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[wrott]

I agree with suffocation theory, also an ammonia spike would kill quickly. You could have killed the good bacteria with Kick ick.
Too many fish in a 90. There's no need to starve fish by skipping days. Weekly 30% WCs may be too frequent especially with tap water--invest in a ro/di unit.
You don't need the canister filter, 2 power-heads is good enough.
Shoot for 125-150 ppm alkalinity.
Live and learn, sorry for the losses, I'd not seek advice from that lfs.

 

[Jturner90g]

I agree with suffocation theory, also an ammonia spike would kill quickly. You could have killed the good bacteria with Kick ick.
Too many fish in a 90. There's no need to starve fish by skipping days. Weekly 30% WCs may be too frequent especially with tap water--invest in a ro/di unit.
You don't need the canister filter, 2 power-heads is good enough.
Shoot for 125-150 ppm alkalinity.
Live and learn, sorry for the losses, I'd not seek advice from that lfs.

Tested for ammonia, there was nothing. The current was strong enough to have mixed any on the sand bed into the water for a reading and nothing. And it isn't the test strip it's a vial test.. and I do think it was a combo of things.


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[Tom39]

Thank you, and lessons learned. The wife isn't happy but we are waiting to put any fish in it. And starting over with some damsel's in a couple of months to make sure everything is copasetic than moving on to Nemo's.


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In my experience in this hobby, (which is limited to only 6yrs, so please take whatever I say with a grain of salt) I have found Damsels to be quite territorial and because of this are one of the fish that I would not add to one of my tanks.There are however many more peaceful fish that are excellent choices for being added first.

Additionally, like most things in this hobby, timing is crucial and I have found that fish selection and order of being added is very important. I am not trying to sway you one way or the other but just wanted to emphasize the importance of fish selection in relation to timing, tank size and suitability with other tank mates.

Thank you


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