In-line vs Drop in Chillers?

[maxxII]

I read a thread about a guy with a 120 acrylic tank in a NY City apartment. He had an inline chiller for his set up, but swapped it out for a drop in. He feels that drop in chillers are more efficient than in line chillers. Based on my brief searching on the web, I'm inclined to agree with him.

Pro's:

Drop in chillers dont require an external pump to feed them. This means less power is used overall. This also means no heat added from another pump to the system.

Con's:

Drop in chillers only have a 5 foot cable for the heat exchanger, so you are limited in where you can place them. If you have an enclosed stand, you're going to need to vent the heat from the chiller somewhere, or you'll wind up re-heating your water from the (now) higher ambient air temperature.

This guy's solution to this was to (possibly) run a dryer duct vent from the rear of this chiller to somewhere else. Seems plausible, but possibly unsightly.

Thinking about this made me reevaluate what I'm doing with my tank and what I want to do for an upcoming upgrade. I currently have a 75 gallon (total water volume) system with dual 250 watt DE MH's, an Iwaki 55RLT running through an OM 4 way for circulation, and PCH CL-650 1/4 hp chiller fed by an Iwaki 40RLT. To my knowledge, the three biggest energy users in reefkeeping are lights, pumps, and chillers. If I can reduce 2 of the 3, I figure I can minimize the impact of my tank on my electrical bill. This becomes more important with a bigger tank.

Checking things out online, (information supplied by manufacturers), the Cyclone TrimLine 1/3HP Drop-In Chiller uses 7.2 amps of power and will remove 4050 BTU's from a tank.

By way of comparison, my CL-650 draws 5.8 amps, and removes 3000 BTU's.
CL-650 1/4HP Aquarium Chiller unit. You have to click on the instructions link (PDF) and then eyeball closely to see the power usage in the first thumbnail.
Factoring in my Iwaki 40RLT adds another 1.3 amps. So I'm running 7.1 amps to chill my modest 75 gallon system, when I can run 7.2 amps and chill 250 gallons...which is my target system volume.

Thoughts, comments, experiances??? Please give your input here as I'm trying to be as energy efficient as possible.

Nick

 

[Julio]

The only reason why they would be more effecient is that they are less of a hassle to clean, but inline chillers are more effecient in cooling.

 

[infrared69]

why dont you use the pump from your closed loop or your return pump to run thru the chiller?

 

[maxxII]

I am using my return pump to feed the chiller. If I tap into the closed loop pump, then I'll lose flow from the closed loop which I'm unwilling to do at this point in time.

Julio, How did you arrive at this conclusion? Not trying to pic a fight, just trying to figure out your source of information.

This chiller uses the same amperage and removes the same BTU's as its drop in sibling.

Delta TrimLine 1/3HP In-Line Chiller
VS
Cyclone TrimLine 1/3HP Drop-In Chiller

If one were more efficent than the other, wouldnt it draw less amperage or remove more BTU's? I realize the efficiency could be in frequency of cycling on/off...but unless someone has recorded the two under similar conditions, its pretty hard to determine...

Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just seeking solid information. Thanks in advance.

Nick

 

[RobbyG]

I am also wondering how you came to this conclusion, not picking an argument, it's just I have heard it the other way around and I am wondering where you got this info?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7069650#post7069650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Julio
The only reason why they would be more effecient is that they are less of a hassle to clean, but inline chillers are more effecient in cooling.

 

[infrared69]

i would also tnd to agree with inline being the better of the two. i have not yet purchaseda chiller for my setup, but with my sump in the basement, i think i will be adding a inline chiller and using my return pumps to do all the work. also, after thinking about my last post you probably cant use your CL pump, the flow rate would exceed maxium and not make for good heat transfer/

 

[Julio]

Drop in chillers don't run water through a chamber or in the case of chillers a heat exchanger that a drop in chiller wont' do, it will cool the water aroudn the probe offcourse it is a proven fact that inline chillers have proven to work better through the years.
There was a big debate on this about 1 or 2 summers ago, do a search on RC.

 

[maxxII]

I did one and found several threads, several that you were on, but none that proved or showed why inlines were more efficient than drop ins.

I understand what you're saying...there is more water volume in contact with the probe/heat exchanger, but how is that any different from cooled water from the inline heat exchanger being returned to your tank? You dont want a jet or stream of cold water entering your tank, the object is cooler water...which will disperse throughout the water column.

Do you have a link to this thread or any keywords for another search?

Nick

 

[maxxII]

The Cyclone TrimLine 1/3HP Drop-In Chiller uses 7.2 amps of power and will remove 4050 BTU's from a tank.

My CL-650 draws 5.8 amps, and removes 3000 BTU's.

Looking at the two examples, the Cyclone gets 562.5 btu's per amp and my inline gets 517 per amp. Purely based on the manufacturer claims you're looking at about 10% better efficiency factor on the drop in chiller.

This doesnt prove much, just that the larger Cyclone is more efficient than the smaller PCH. There may be more efficient inline chillers out there. This is the kind of information I'm looking for.

Nick

 

[Julio]

Hey Nick,
i tried doing a search myself and keeps on saying the search engine is diabled. YOu dont' have to shoot the cold water back into your tank directly, i don't i have it mixed with the draining water from the tank to cool the tank at a much slower rate and not shock the corals.

 

[samsfishnchips]

maxxII,

if possible I would go with drop, no playing around with flow rates, no pump that can fail,

and to me, more efficient, why

no need to add another pump, some cases,
water cooled right in the sump, no need for lines running outside

inline, would be preferred is no space, chiller can relocated a bit away and the heat of it too,

be careful of and take proper precautions, specially when hot

pump feeding chiller die
I believe my tank is dead.

"chiller trip the breaker for some unknown reason."
Worse Week Of My Life

good luck with your choice,

sam

 

[Fliger]

I don't know much about BTU's - but I can tell you that my drop-in chiller kept my tank cool very quickly and efficiently. I'm not a fan of plumbing and an extra pump so I wanted a drop-in. As long as its in the sump in a high flow area, you're good. Unfortunately the cooling element on my chiller might be too large for my new sump so I might need a new one. ;-( I'm probably going to find a drop-in with the smallest drop-in.

I bought this one (used).

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=698555&highlight=aquanetics+dropin

 

[golfish]

IME, you want to have the chiller as far away from the tank as you can get it. If you can locate the drop in chiller outside or in another area like you can an inline chiller then it would make adding a chiller a little easier. I have had my chiller outside on the front porch and now in my garage. I also had it in a crawls space under the house that wasn't very big (4x4x2). The chiller didn't get good air flow around it down there so it didn't work very well.

A drop in is much easier to use but for the most parts its going to be less efficient, the main reason being that most people will have it located in an area where it wont get the proper air flow and or it will throw unwanted heat in the tank area.

I have read about people running the lines for a drop in chiller through walls. That's a good option.

if possible I would go with drop, no playing around with flow rates, no pump that can fail,
and to me, more efficient, why

no need to add another pump, some cases,
water cooled right in the sump, no need for lines running outside

Most people use a return pump so there's no need to add one.

I'd go find somebody who has a chiller that's running and see how much heat it puts out before you decide. If you feel the heat wont be an issue then your options are greater.

 

[maxxII]

The points about the chiller heating up the air surrounding the sump are very valid. IMO this is the biggest drawback to drop in chillers. However, this is also a consideration for in-line chillers as well.

My intent in starting this thread was to attempt to determine if one style of chiller was more effiecient than the other. I realize there are some circumstances unique to each set up that will alter or make one style better suited to a tank than the other.

In my case, the upgrade this is being planned for is a 120 inwall, with a total target volume of 250 gallons after sump and frag tank are plumbed in. The tank and sump, (and consequently chiller) will be on the unfinished side of my basement. This means that with adequate venting, a drop in chiller will be suitable for my needs. This doesnt mean an inline is out of the question, I'm obviously going to have to search and read up on manufacturer's specs regarding power usage etc and compare various chillers against each other to determine whats best for my needs.

One thing I have determined is that my current set up, (CL-650 w/ Iwaki 40RLT) isnt as efficient as the larger cyclone drop in chiller would be.

Cyclone uses 7.2 amps and removes 4050 BTU's.
My set up uses 7.1 amps and only removes 3000BTU's.

30% more BTU's removed for 1/10th more energy used is worth considering.

Nick

 

[RobbyG]

The argument of how the drop in chiller is located is valid, but with proper planning the upside is that the drop in can provide a more effiecent cooling system with less chance of something going wrong. The only real downside I see with them is that they tend to be more delicate units because of the potential to damage the hose by bending it too much. Of course the upside to that same flexible hose is that the whole unit can easily be moved to another tank if it's needed in an emergency.

 

[maxxII]

Good point on the flexible hose being somewhat delicate. Hadnt thought along those lines, but I would think once the chiller was set up, you wouldnt mess with it too much?

Nick

 

[RobbyG]

True but you never know! One day I left my sump door open for 10 minuts, only to find my 5 year old son pulling the hose out of the sump, the angle he had the hose at just about stopped my heart. Luckily it did not get crimped

 

[maxxII]

I was just pointed towards these chillers....

Current USA Prime Inline Chillers.

Current USA Prime Drop in Chillers.

Current USA Prime Tower Chillers.

Quick math on Amps vs BTU's removed by the Current USA chillers...

Prime Modular and Drop in 1/4 hp.....595.75 BTU's per amp.
Prime Modular and drop in 1/3 hp.....610.52 BTU's per amp.

But the big winners are the new Tower chillers.

Prime Tower 1/3 hp unit.....1000 BTU's per amp
Prime Tower 1/4 hp unit.....1120 BTU's per amp

Marine Depot sells Current USA chillers, and so does Marine and Reef and Gina's.....

Has anyone heard anything about these? I've tried using the RC Google Search, but still cant find much about these.

Anyone have more info?

Nick

 

[golfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7079595#post7079595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by maxxII
The points about the chiller heating up the air surrounding the sump are very valid. IMO this is the biggest drawback to drop in chillers. However, this is also a consideration for in-line chillers as well.

If you were to consider the heat released by a in line chiller a drawback, all you would have to do is move it to another location, there's not much option with a drop in. That said, there have been some good threads about people making cooling barrels, heat excahangers using drop in chillers.

IME, You really have to consider the area the chiller is located, if there's not good air circulation the chiller isn't go to be very efficient no matter if its a drop in or in line.

Both have pro's and con's..the in line can be more efficient but then you have to plumb 30 feet of 1.5" PVC

 

[RobbyG]

Huh!! Wouldnt 30 feet of PVC add more contact time and transfer more heat from the ambient air into the water in the pipe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7092417#post7092417 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by golfish
Both have pro's and con's..the in line can be more efficient but then you have to plumb 30 feet of 1.5" PVC