In-wall 380gal tank - cut out options

[barjam]

I have a different opinion on a few things. I wanted a picture frame look and front access would have killed that so I didn't include it. I don't really miss it to be honest. Aquascaping is harder but with my wife acting as a spotter it wasn't bad. Playing corals is relatively easy. This is a standard 120 a bigger tank would probably need front access.

Also this is my third in wall in the same spot (upgraded from 75 to 90 to 120). Sealing or any special wall treatment is pointless in my setup. My stand and the area around it is unsealed other than the sheet of plywood the tank sits on. Occasional saltwater drips on a 2x4 or plywood is harmless. My fish room is in an open part of my unfinished basement and has decent cross ventilation (humidity is at most only a couple points over ambient). A big tank or closed fish room would definitely be a problem though.

Lighting is a problem. With the front sitting under the framing the max I could do with good reflectors was 2 lumen-something-or-others centered over the tank and one 54 watt t5 sitting under the front 2x4 header. The t5 is basically so the fish can see as people are rarely home when just it is on.

 

[karimwassef]

ok. now it begins - ripping up drywall and pulling the parts together

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[Lavoisier]

Looks like you have adjusted nicely to the change in plans. Great build! Tagging along.

 

[weicowireman]

Awesome build!

 

[peppie]

What is your plan on securing the surge tank to the wall above the tank?
How much water will it hold when it is full?

 

[karimwassef]

peppie - It's either 100 gallon or 150 gallon resevoir. It should hold 80 to 120 gallons.

Since it is up against a corner, I was planning on using a plywood and 2x6 platform that is supported 3 different ways:

1. 5 Bottom braces pushing down and back on the wall studs. These are on both walls (1 on the short wall, 5 on the long wall). The long wall has a header made of 2 2x12s and this is currently carrying the weight of the ceiling and the floor above.

2. 4 heavy duty chains bolted through the ceiling studs.

3. Two 2x6 studs connected to the 2x6 frame of the platform.

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My concern is balancing the distribution of the load between the three mechanisms so none experience the full weight of the resevoir.

wood color code: pink = 2x4s, yellow = 2x6, brown = 2x12

 

[karimwassef]

It's getting a little cramped - moved things around a bit

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[Lavoisier]

I may have missed it in the thread but why did you decide to go with a single surge tank? Originally, you had planned on two smaller tanks.

 

[karimwassef]

Lavoisier. I originally had two tanks that would fill and be actuated by a level sensor to release and then stop. I began constructing the matrix of the safety/controls I would need to make this work and it became very complex. There are 2 actuators on each tank, then there's the sensors on the main tank and the sump. I also added an unrestricted main drain path that is also actuated...

To simplify, I moved to a single resevoir with two actuated outlets. The on/off sequence is now controlled actively based on timers with the sensors only interfering if things are out of wack. This simplified the logic (and physical implementation) tremendously and gave me many more option - like running one outlet for a longer surge .. or running both intentionally .. or creating a short cycle/long cycle mix between the two.

I don't need to vary the valve ratios on the pump filling the resevoir. All these options become programmable with fewer variables to measure and control. I like to experiment to find optima, and this gives the most flexibility too.

 

[Lavoisier]

Ingenious! Like I said earlier I am looking forward to your build and the video of your surge(s) in action.

 

[karimwassef]

What would be great is if I can find an actuated butterfly valve to minimize the ramp time. That may be a separate DIY project using a standard valve with an external (dry) solenoid actuator. I expect the force required to make that work would be quite large.

The commercial ones are so expensive, I might as well buy a Tunze powerhead

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4e3ccef#/d4e3ccef/204

 

[110galreef]

What would be great is if I can find an actuated butterfly valve to minimize the ramp time. That may be a separate DIY project using a standard valve with an external (dry) solenoid actuator. I expect the force required to make that work would be quite large.

The commercial ones are so expensive, I might as well buy a Tunze powerhead

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4e3ccef#/d4e3ccef/204

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=803&parentcatid=870

maybe something here will help? I am not fully aware of what you need for this setup but hope it helps?

I use this on my pool and maybe takes 10 secs to fully open/close? ~ $150 for actuator
http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/products/automation-valve-actuator-186.htm

and use on a valve like this ~ $35 for valve
http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/products/valves-diverter-valve-15-and-2-2-way-and-3-way-39.htm

click on specs for all the valve, probably just need a 2 way.

Not a butterfly, but ball valves?

 

[karimwassef]

I have a Hayward actuated ball valve that should work. The problem with all the pool valves is that they take between 2.5 and 10 seconds to open and close. I would like something that is in the 0-1.5 sec range.

 

[110galreef]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=75802&catid=803
1.25 secs...not sure if this works

reasonably priced

 

[karimwassef]

Stainless steel. Need an all plastic valve for saltwater.

 

[Lavoisier]

What would be great is if I can find an actuated butterfly valve to minimize the ramp time. That may be a separate DIY project using a standard valve with an external (dry) solenoid actuator. I expect the force required to make that work would be quite large.

The commercial ones are so expensive, I might as well buy a Tunze powerhead

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4e3ccef#/d4e3ccef/204

Wow! Obscenely expensive. That's about what I paid for 2 MP60s with battery back up!! I'm sure you'll find a way.

 

[karimwassef]

When I first needed to move the tank into the garage, I copied the design and just stacked the components behind the wall. Now that I'm looking at it from a more objective view, I'm considering different plumbing

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Given that both the protein skimmer inlet and the surge resevoir are much higher than the sump, AND the overflow box in the main tank is end-end, I decided to take the main drain bulkhead as the pump inlet rather than the sump. This reduces the head needed by about 4 feet (half the original head).

The resevoir emergency overflow pipe doesn't need to flow to the sump, so I redirected it to the main tank overflow box instead. This allows the pipe to go behind the main support beam for the resevoir platform.

These changes open up the area for accessing the top and front of the tank and should increase flow to the skimmer and surge resevoir.

The return pump also becomes dedicated which should make the in-tank penductors a lot more effective.

I realize that this is unconventional plumbing. I'm also concerned with the structural support for the resevoir tank. Please let me know your thoughts on how to improve this design.

 

[Lavoisier]

I like the idea of moving your pump 4 feet closer to its target. My concern would be scenarios where your c2c runs dry (more explicitly the primary siphon return) and the pump is still running for some period of time. Would the primary siphon ever be without water and, if so, would that negatively impact the pump?

I'm sure there would be a way to attach a sensor tied to the water level that could shut down the pump. In fact, I will probably also need to do this with my set up but was thinking my Apex and a properly situated sensor would be able to solve the problem.

 

[karimwassef]

Yes. I already had two level sensors in the overflow box. One for emergency (high line) and one for dry (low line).

The "high" opens a second (un-valved) path in the main drain. Still working up the stability analysis on this due to the time delay.

The "low" turns off the surge and skimmer pump.

The main pump (6000 gph) should generate a 0.5" over the box lip with the 2" main drain gate valve turned down a little.

 

[karimwassef]

In terms of flow, the constriction is the 2" elbow inside the overflow box. This would have to process 6000gph (sump) + 4000gph (surge).

The rest of the main drain and sump only need to handle the 6000 gph of the main pump.