Is My Water OK? I killed 3 fish during acclamation.

[schabiazabi]

I'm new to this hobby, and I'm having tons of problems, which I believe are due to my water being poisoned.

Long story short: In the beginning I did not have a RODI system, so I used tab water with Amquel Plus. I bought a Queen Angel and set her up using that very water. The fish is still alive. Since then, I bought a RODI system and purchased 3 fish from 2 different sources. They all died after acclamation. From 5 to 10 hours after.

During the last acclamation I wanted to perform a fresh water dip, but I could not adjust the PH up using Baking Soda (as suggested in the sticky post). Someone suggested my API test kit is wrong. This made me purchase a digital tester for multiple parameters. After testing PH in my tap water and my RODI water I found something very weird (at least to me, maybe it is normal). My RODI PH is much lower than my tab water PH. Here are the results of my water:

PH "“ Tab Water "“ 7.5
PH "“ RODI Water "“ 6.5 (or it changes around that range)

TDS "“ Tab Water "“ 260
TDS "“ RODI Water "“ 0

CON "“ Tab Water "“ 378
CON "“ RODI Water "“ 16

SAL "“ Tab Water "“ 190 ppm
SAL "“ RODI Water "“ 0 ppm

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0

Is there a way to figure out if my water is correct based on the above parameters? The drop in PH and the dead fish worry me.
Is my RODI doing something to the water. I was suppose to flush it for 2 hours, which I did?

Also, if the above data is not enough to render a valid diagnosis, can you guys recommend a place where I can send my water for this kind of (fish related) testing.


More Data


0. Fish: Yellow Tang, Threadfin Butterfly, Majestic Angel
1. Temp is 78F
2. Drip Acclaim (almost 4 hours this time)
3. Fish from my LFS was eating. The last 2 I bought online. They did not eat after acclamation.
4. PH in my tank was 8.2 according to my API test kit.
5. No marks on Fish. The fish from my local store was perfect.
6. I did not clean around the tank. The first fish died on floor 4, and the last 2 fish died on floor 1. That rules out lots of environmental problems.
7. No chemicals, perfumes or anything like that.
8. I have a central AC, but I try not to run it in the winter up here in New York. You should not spray anything around your AC, so I did not.

Since I bought my RODI filter no fish was able to acclaim. I only have my fish from the tab water acclamation time (in the beginning). What throws me off the most is that my Queen Angel is in the same water (75%) now as the fish that died.

Can someone please comment on the PH drop after RODI. Is this normal. Why would the removal of metals increase the acidity? Is my RODI filter adding something to the water. When I was showing off my drinking water from the RODI my mother said "it feels something" when drinking.

The crual retest would be do buy two Butterflies again and acclaim one in the tab water with Amquel Plus and the other in plain RODI system water. I just do not want to do it.

For sure I'm not buying anything anymore until I understand what happens to my PH after RO.

The acclamation process is in the pictures.


Thanks in advance.

 

[dwd5813]

FWIW, my RO/DI water has an "apparent" pH above 9, but I do not know if that is real or not. In any case, it will not push up the pH of the salt water too much.

I address the pH of RO/DI here:

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm
from it:


Final Effluent pH

Aside from the issues discussed above concerning the effluent̢۪s pH when the DI resin becomes depleted, the final pH coming out of an RO/DI system should not significantly concern reef aquarists. Many aquarists with low pH problems have asked, for example, if their aquarium̢۪s low pH may be caused by their replacing evaporated water with RO/DI water that they measure to have a pH below 7. In short, the answer is no, this is not a cause of low pH nor is it something to be generally concerned about, for the following reasons:

1. The pH of totally pure water is around 7 (with the exact value depending on temperature). As carbon dioxide from the atmosphere enters the water, the pH drops into the 6̢۪s and even into the 5̢۪s, depending on the amount of CO2. At saturation with the level of CO2 in normal (outside) air, the pH would be about 5.66. Indoor air often has even more CO2, and the pH can drop a bit lower, into the 5̢۪s. Consequently, the pH of highly purified water coming from an RO/DI unit is expected to be in the pH 5-7 range.

2. The pH of highly purified water is not accurately measured by test kits, or by pH meters. There are several different reasons for this, including the fact that highly purified water has very little buffering capacity, so its pH is easily changed. Even the acidity or basicity of a pH test kit̢۪s indicator dye is enough to alter pure water̢۪s measured pH. As for pH meters, the probes themselves do not function well in the very low ionic strength of pure freshwater, and trace impurities on them can swing the pH around quite a bit.

3. The pH of the combination of two solutions does not necessarily reflect the average (not even a weighted average) of their two pH values. The final pH of a mixture may actually not even be between the pH̢۪s of the two solutions when combined. Consequently, adding pH 7 pure water to pH 8.2 seawater may not even result in a pH below 8.2, but rather might be higher than 8.2 (for complex reasons relating to the acidity of bicarbonate in seawater vs. freshwater).

 

[dwd5813]

also,

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1974101

 

[jimmy frag]

imo. im not worried about the ph of the rodi with a tds reading of 0. this is good.. dont use tap water regardless and dont ever use any additives to dilute tap water and think its safe. you are only concerned of the ph in the tank. when your salt is mixed with rodi water it is set to the correct ph. if you have concerns about your tank water than do a large 30% water change and run carbon. the fish you had ordered died because they could not handle the shipping time and stress. you most likely have high nitrate and phosphate level because you added it. its in your tap water. you soon will be finding an algea bloom coming on in the tank... i could go on and on and im sure many others will have lots to add but your tap water is the main culprit of your problems. muliple water changes will soon enough solve your problem ..

 

[waldomas]

^^^
I was thinking of that thread!
Thanks!

 

[schabiazabi]

the fish you had ordered died because they could not handle the shipping time and stress. you most likely have high nitrate and phosphate level because you added it. its in your tap water

- none of this is true.

My nitrate in tab water is 0. My first fish was bought in the store and I came home within 1 hour. The other fish was bought online, so here you could be right.

dont use tap water regardless and dont ever use any additives to dilute tap water and think its safe.

- this I agree with, and this is exactly what I want to do.

 

[steelerfan1]

2. Drip Acclaim (almost 4 hours this time)

hi, i am new to hobby as well, but i was reading where this is a big problem.

if you search for sk8r here, you can see the downside to this process and could be responsible for the deaths.

good luck to you.

 

[Sk8r]

It was almost certainly the acclimation process that actually killed the fish, if it went longer than thirty minutes. There is a sticky at the top of this forum which explains why acclimation longer than 30 minutes can be lethal, particularly on shipped fish. I am very sorry you're having such a rough time, but please go up to the top of this forum and just start reading the HOW TO SET UP thread and the one on NEW FISH OR INVERT and I hope it will save you a lot of time, money, and heartache.

I have a list of good water parameters in my sig, which I hope may help. Don't worry about ph too much: it's not a great issue with marine tanks the way it is with fresh water. Salinity matching is tolerably critical---but ask your shipper via phone what salinity they ship in and prepare a quarantine tank with that salinity---so when the fish arrives, you just doublecheck the bag salinity to be 100% certain, and if it is a match, just put that new fish straight into the quarantine tank: adjust the salinity slowly in that, and you're fine.

 

[almostazoo]

on drip you get a huge amonia spike, this was thought to be the best way but no longer is that the case. like steelerfan1 said look at sk8r blogs and posts and you will see a better method.

 

[almostazoo]

what timing while I type sk8r posts...

 

[Sk8r]

---lol, almost a zoo--- thank you. I've put * * * on 3 stickies it's real essential for new hobbyists to read.

 

[markgsa]

How old is this tank? is it cycled at least?

 

[dwd5813]

if you search for sk8r here, you can see the downside to this process and could be responsible for the deaths.

good luck to you.

It was almost certainly the acclimation process that actually killed the fish, if it went longer than thirty minutes. There is a sticky at the top of this forum which explains why acclimation longer than 30 minutes can be lethal, particularly on shipped fish...

also,

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1974101

:wave:

 

[James404]

I agree with Sk8r, your acclimation process is most likely what killed the fish. You should definitely read his sticky regarding how to properly acclimate shipped livestock.

In short, while your fish were in the bags, ammonia was being produced but the PH in the bags while sealed was greatly reduced, making the ammonia harmless. As soon as you opened the bag, the PH shot up and the ammonia became toxic.

 

[schabiazabi]

It was almost certainly the acclimation process that actually killed the fish, if it went longer than thirty minutes. There is a sticky at the top of this forum which explains why acclimation longer than 30 minutes can be lethal, particularly on shipped fish. I am very sorry you're having such a rough time, but please go up to the top of this forum and just start reading the HOW TO SET UP thread and the one on NEW FISH OR INVERT and I hope it will save you a lot of time, money, and heartache.

I have a list of good water parameters in my sig, which I hope may help. Don't worry about ph too much: it's not a great issue with marine tanks the way it is with fresh water. Salinity matching is tolerably critical---but ask your shipper via phone what salinity they ship in and prepare a quarantine tank with that salinity---so when the fish arrives, you just doublecheck the bag salinity to be 100% certain, and if it is a match, just put that new fish straight into the quarantine tank: adjust the salinity slowly in that, and you're fine.

- this was helpful. thanks.

 

[schabiazabi]

How old is this tank? is it cycled at least?

Tank was 3 days old. It was my Quarantine Tank. It was not cycled.

 

[Sk8r]

[welcome]
We hope we can make this hobby a lot more fun for you. Start with the stickies I've marked with a triple asterisk (* * *) and those will answer a lot of the problems you've had.

 

[Sk8r]

Quarantine tank is perfect. That's what you need to have.

 

[schabiazabi]

Thanks, I will read all your sticky posts.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Just skimmed this thread -- but that is/was one of the skinniest tangs I have seen in a long time, not sure how long it would have lasted anyways.