is there an easy way to do water changes?

FortuneFavours

New member
Hi all

I'm working on my first reef tank and am about to start the plumbing. Is there an easy way to automatically remove/add water when doing water changes?

I had initially thought of tee-ing off the main drain, but that wouldn't work for removing the water as it would only drain about 1 gallon of water from the 10" x 5" overflow (assuming the return pump is turned off).

I'd like to be able to remove a similar amount of water every time, so I was thinking of having a pipe submerged about 10% (4" - the tank is almost 40" tall) of the way into the tank, for 10% fortnightly water changes. This would be connected to a ball valve which would stay closed most of the time and only opened when it's time for a water change.

I'd have some flexible pipe connected, which could be kept hidden in the cabinet and rolled out when I want to drain water. The tank is only about 10 feet away from my garden patio doors, so the pipe wouldn't have to be ridiculously long. I'd have to find some way of getting the syphon started as the pipe would come over the top of the tank.

Once the water is drained to the required level, I could connect the other end to a pump in the prepared salt water and just pump the new water back in.

The tank is 300G, so replacing 30G fortnightly like this would make my life much easier!

Is this a stupid idea?? :uhoh2:
 
NOt sure,
I drain mine to my floor drain in my basement, sucking out some detritus on the way from my sump.

I then use an extra, small RP to pump up my prepared SW into the sump.
Never lifting any buckets, etc.

Many ways to do it.

I've seen systems with anywhere from 30-100g+ in the sump area that can be taken off line of the system- drained, and refilled with the WC, then put back online to the system.
Often using valving and cut offs from the main pump for this.
 
I use a Python Siphon for all water removal from the DT/sump. Clean water is returned using hard plumbing and a Mag18 from the barrel in the basement. The wife wasn't real pleased when I drilled a hole in the living room wall and down to the basement, but now that she sees just how easy topoffs are she's changed her mind a bit.

That she now wants her own 150DT upstairs may have something to do with it. I Dunno. Just a hunch.....
 
When I'm feeling particlarly lazy, i switch the program on my controller so it uses the saltwater pump in place of the ATO. Then i just start pulling water out while the pump tries to keep it full. When im done i switch the provram back to use the ato.
 
I have a 'T' and valve installed on the return. To the 'T' I added a quick connect. To empty water out I connect a long hose (50') to the quick connect, turn a couple of valves and use the return pump to move the water to an outside sink.

To put new water in I just reverse the hose and using a pump in the NSW mix barrel, pump it into the sump. I have an X10 remote to control the pump while I'm watching at the sump.

Level indicators on the sump make sure I put in as much as I took out. The heaviest thing I move is the hose. Takes about 20-30 minutes from start to finish. This includes cleaning hose and putting it away!

Not one drop is spilled and no water hauled by me!
 
what we did is drill a hole in the tank seven inches down from the top of our 125 long tank and that drains 30 gallons of water out of a 3/4 bulkhead with ball valve and garden hose attachment and then we pumped the new saltwater from our mixing station into the sump and the return pump put the new water into the DT heres a couple of pics so you can see what i'm talking about


the plumbing on the side is the water change line
 
Thank you everyone for your posts - it's interesting that people have so many different ways of attempting to do the same thing!

I've been thinking about this for most of the day and have come up with an idea that I wanted to run by you all - I've even drawn a diagram and everything...





So, the idea is this (I'll use my tank as an example):

Let's say I want to change roughly 20% of my tank's water every 4 weeks. My tank is 1200L, so that's 240L p/month, which is 60L per week.

I would set up 2 x 200L containers (enough for 3 water changes) - one to collect the 'waste' water and the other to hold the 'new' mixed saltwater to refill the tank. Obviously, you could dispense with the 'waste container' if you were able to dispense of the waste water directly.


Draining the 60L
As my tank has a footprint of 60" x 30", 2" of water is roughly equivalent to the 60L I need to change. I would set a pipe (the right of the diagram) 2" below the water line. This line would be connected to a pump that would suck the 2" of water down into the container. The pump would be connected to an auto top off system whose function would be to turn the waste pump off (to stop and protect it) when the water level has dropped below the level on the intake.

As a fail-safe to prevent flooding, the waste container would also house a water level alarm to remind me to empty the container when it has reached a certain level, in case I forget.


Refilling the 60L
After the tank has been drained of the waste water, the second pump (left side of the diagram) would kick in to pump the replacement saltwater into the tank. This pump would also be controlled by an auto-top off system, turning the pump on when the water has dropped to the low level and turning the pump off when it has reached the high level.

The container would have a water alarm to remind me to fill it with new saltwater (see below), should the amount in the container drop too low.


Timing
I would prefer smaller weekly water changes over one large one and so I would connect the two auto top off controllers to two independent timers. For example, the first timer (for the 'drain' system) would come on at 11.00am every Saturday. Assuming it takes something like 15 mins to drain the 60L, this timer would go off at around 11.20am (5 min safety buffer). The pump should have turned off automatically due to the auto top off system it is attached to and, in any case, it can't drain any more than 60L as the water level will drop below the intake pipe.

The second timer (that controls the 'refill system') would come on at 11.20am and, assuming it takes 15 mins to refill the 60L, would turn off at around 11.40am (just to be safe). Again, the auto top off controller should already have turned the pump off as soon as the water reached the desired water level in the display tank.

I've just made up the timings above, of course, and I would have to test the timings properly. The use of the auto top off systems together with the timer should provide enough of a safety factor to prevent flooding the display tank.


Preventing back-siphon
The 'refill pipe' would need to be positioned above the water line to prevent any chance of the water siphoning back down it once the pump is turned off. I'm not sure if a siphon would actually occur if the outlet was positioned slightly under the water, but better safe than sorry! Although depending on the location of the outlet in relation to the water line, it probably wouldn't siphon that much anyway....


Mixing new saltwater
With the addition of the ball valves to the 'refill' line, this should just be a simple case of adding RO water, throwing in the right amount of salt for the amount of RO water I've just added, closing/opening the valves as per the diagram and getting the pump going to loop the water and mix it all up properly. I obviously wouldn't attempt to do this between 11.00-11.40am on a Saturday morning... :lol:


So, what do you think? Is this feasible or have I missed something obvious and come up with a really stupid idea???
 
Thank you everyone for your posts - it's interesting that people have so many different ways of attempting to do the same thing!

Draining the 60L
As my tank has a footprint of 60" x 30", 2" of water is roughly equivalent to the 60L I need to change. I would set a pipe (the right of the diagram) 2" below the water line. This line would be connected to a pump that would suck the 2" of water down into the container. The pump would be connected to an auto top off system whose function would be to turn the waste pump off (to stop and protect it) when the water level has dropped below the level on the intake.


IIRC most aquarium pumps don't suck, they blow. Meaning you need to prime the pump.

If the outgoing line is just long enough to reach the correct drain down level, all you'd have to do is start a siphon and walk away. It would break siphon when the correct level is reached. No pump or complicated sensors needed.

There's too much in your post for my brain to handle right now so I'll stop here. Time for a :beer:
 
IIRC most aquarium pumps don't suck, they blow. Meaning you need to prime the pump.

If it's all connected, wouldn't the blowing at one end cause suction at the other? What about an external garden pump, would that do the trick?


If the outgoing line is just long enough to reach the correct drain down level, all you'd have to do is start a siphon and walk away.

Still sounds like too much work... :lolspin:


There's too much in your post for my brain to handle right now...

Understandable, especially as I'm not 100% it actually makes any sense anyway! And my brain still hurts from all the thinking.
 
I am thinking you are looking to hook a tube up to the intake of a return pump and have it suck from the tank? Something like this?

202200-Mag-Drive-Supreme-2-Aquarium-Pump-b_1.jpg
 
If you are going to create an elaborate water changer like you have pictured, just get an automatic water changer and be done with it. You can do it via Apex with the upcoming Dos, SpectraPure LM3, Genesis Renew, etc etc.
 
I have a 1/2 pipe that comes out of the side of my refugium with a ball valve on it that goes over to my laundry tub I get the same water change every time 22 gallons. This works for me because my refugium is above my sump and sits wear a display tank normally would but my display is on the upstairs level. If you can see the pipe that goes into the top back corner of the refugium this is where my water comes in from my brute mixing container on the bottom pushed by a mag 5 no need to ever lift a bucket just turn the valves and let it go.
 

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I'll share what I did.

I leave a cheap hobby pump in my sump plumbed to my house drain on an adjacent sink on the other side of a wall, I calculated how many gallons it removes from the entire skimmer section and set my saltwater mixing container float valve to the exact same gallons which is also adjacent to the tank in a closet. I hit 2 switches and my 18 gallon water change is done in 10 minutes without moving a muscle. I would never set up another tank without being able to plumb to my house. Heck even my skimmer is plumbed to the drain. I turn a valve and bye bye skimmate. Now I just need to add an auto neck cleaner.
 
If you are going to create an elaborate water changer like you have pictured, just get an automatic water changer and be done with it. You can do it via Apex with the upcoming Dos, SpectraPure LM3, Genesis Renew, etc etc.

I have been using the Spectrapure LM3 for a month now and it is working great.
 
If you are going to create an elaborate water changer like you have pictured, just get an automatic water changer and be done with it. You can do it via Apex with the upcoming Dos, SpectraPure LM3, Genesis Renew, etc etc.

1. I'm new to the hobby and don't really know what's out there (I'll check out the suggestions - thanks :thumbsup:).

2. I doubt whether the off-the-shelf products will do everything I'd like them to, though I could be wrong.

3. I live in the UK and would probably struggle to get a hold of a lot of the products you have in the US without considerable extra expense.

4. It would defeat the purpose of posting in the DIY forum! :lol2:


I have a 1/2 pipe that comes out of the side of my refugium with a ball valve on it that goes over to my laundry tub I get the same water change every time 22 gallons. This works for me because my refugium is above my sump and sits wear a display tank normally would but my display is on the upstairs level. If you can see the pipe that goes into the top back corner of the refugium this is where my water comes in from my brute mixing container on the bottom pushed by a mag 5 no need to ever lift a bucket just turn the valves and let it go.

I'll share what I did.

I leave a cheap hobby pump in my sump plumbed to my house drain on an adjacent sink on the other side of a wall, I calculated how many gallons it removes from the entire skimmer section and set my saltwater mixing container float valve to the exact same gallons which is also adjacent to the tank in a closet. I hit 2 switches and my 18 gallon water change is done in 10 minutes without moving a muscle. I would never set up another tank without being able to plumb to my house. Heck even my skimmer is plumbed to the drain. I turn a valve and bye bye skimmate. Now I just need to add an auto neck cleaner.

Some really great ideas! I think I might lose the waste water container and just run a pipe straight out to the drain in the patio area. If I did go down this route, I'd just use an external pump to take the water out of the display (although I'd probably sit the pump in a container anyway, just in case something leaks!).

I'd love to not have to worry about the water changes at all (i.e. no turning valves, etc). If I lose the water container then all I'd really need to worry about is just topping up the container that holds the replacement saltwater.

With a 200L container, I could do 3 x 60L water changes and not have to worry about anything for 3 weeks, apart from topping up the container again. I could even do 6 x 30L water changes (2 x 30L changes per week), so that the process is even more gradual (I'm sure the tank inhabitants would appreciate it).

I did think about using dosing pumps for an even more gradual water change, but I'm not sure if they'd be able to draw water up that high?

Thinking out loud, I suppose I could have the dosing pump set high, drawing from a container that is also set high, which is automatically topped off from the main container below. Hmmmmm.... I do like that idea actually, much more gradual. I'll redraw my diagram! :)


I am thinking you are looking to hook a tube up to the intake of a return pump and have it suck from the tank? Something like this?

202200-Mag-Drive-Supreme-2-Aquarium-Pump-b_1.jpg

Yep, that is what I was thinking - I wonder if that would work? As was mentioned earlier, all I really need to do is get the siphon going and the rest will happen automatically. Any assistance from the pump would be a bonus.
 
I have a side sump that's the size of the desired water change (80g out of my 380g DT and 660g total). I can disconnect it from my main sump with a valve.

I use my return pump (with a T) through a hose to a drain to discharge water that would have gone back to the tank.

Once enough water is removed, I close the valve between the sumps and make new SW in the aux sump.

Open the connecting valve and done.
 
Something I can't quite get my head around:

Assuming that there is an auto-top off in the return section of the sump (to replace evaporated water with RO water), could this new system draw and return saltwater from/to another area of the sump without affecting the water level in the return section of the sump (and messing with the RO auto-top off)?

if possible, It would save me having to have another container higher up, as the sump would be at ground level and so the dosing pump wouldn't have to do much 'heavy lifting'...
I suppose the depth of the pipe (that draws water from the main container) would have to be taken into consideration, especially if the container is tall.

It'd just be a double dosing pump setup with one pump drawing waste water from the sump and expelling it via the drain and the other drawing water from the saltwater container and putting it into the sump. Which begs the question: why don't more people do this? Or do they?
 
I have a side sump that's the size of the desired water change (80g out of my 380g DT and 660g total). I can disconnect it from my main sump with a valve.

I use my return pump (with a T) through a hose to a drain to discharge water that would have gone back to the tank.

Once enough water is removed, I close the valve between the sumps and make new SW in the aux sump.

Open the connecting valve and done.

Thanks Karim (sounds like an awesome tank, by the way!). My mission, however, is to be even lazier...
 
Something I can't quite get my head around:

Assuming that there is an auto-top off in the return section of the sump (to replace evaporated water with RO water), could this new system draw and return saltwater from/to another area of the sump without affecting the water level in the return section of the sump (and messing with the RO auto-top off)?

if possible, It would save me having to have another container higher up, as the sump would be at ground level and so the dosing pump wouldn't have to do much 'heavy lifting'...
I suppose the depth of the pipe (that draws water from the main container) would have to be taken into consideration, especially if the container is tall.

It'd just be a double dosing pump setup with one pump drawing waste water from the sump and expelling it via the drain and the other drawing water from the saltwater container and putting it into the sump. Which begs the question: why don't more people do this? Or do they?

Basically, if both dosing pumps are set to remove/add the same amount of water over the same time period, would this work:

 
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