Kalk+Vinager Alk Observation

[Costazul]

Hi,

I have 3 weeks using Kalk+Vinager with the following mix:
Ahead I mix 15 Tbsp of Kalk with 225ml of vinager (standby 6-7 days) then mix with 5g of RO/DI water and refill my reservoir.

I notice that it hold the Cal (480) steady, however the Alk keep going down, like 7.50 to 7.20 every 2 days. So I need to add Alk solution constanly.

Anybody is having issues to hold the ALK steady (for at least a week) with kalk/vinager mix? Or I miss something. Oh! Mg is 1230

Tank is a 125g SPS, with 4 medium size colonies, 1 medium Porites, 7 Medium size frags, 2 Clams and a 11in Favia.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Are you using 15 tablespoons of kalk per 5 gallons or 15 teaspoons of kalk?

You should be using 15 teaspoons of kalk per 5 gallons.


Mag is a little low:

Recommended to be between 1250-1350 ppm.


If you demand is high enough from clams and sps coral, you may need to add alk to meet demand. Kalk water is limited by your evaporation rate. Are you adding all your top-off evaporation water as kalk water?

 

[disc1]

I notice that it hold the Cal (480) steady, however the Alk keep going down, like 7.50 to 7.20 every 2 days. So I need to add Alk solution constanly

While it may appear that your cal held steady and alk dropped alone, that is probably not the case. A 0.3dkH drop in alk would have come with only about a 2 or 3 ppm drop in calcium. This is just too small to notice with a test kit.

 

[Costazul]

I wondering how some SPS Keeper can maintain their tank full of SPS colonies with just Kalk and some alk weekly. I still am missing something, perhaps Mag.

Hi HighlandReefer, Oh teaspoons thanks.

 

[Costazul]

Hi disk1,

Yes! That would be very probably!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree you are just not keeping up with demand for both, and in fact, most heavy SPS tanks cannot get by on limewater alone.

Boosting magnesium is a fine idea and may help reduce a bit of demand that comes from abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, but it might also spur coralline growth, increasing demand again.

 

[travis32]

So, we talk about what levels should be... What are the "effects" of low alk on corals? I mean are we talking instant death within a week? Recession over a period of months... Slower growth, but no die off? My alk has probably not been kept up with limewater for 3-4 months. I saw everything growing and reproducing. LPS, SPS, my clam is good, Anenomes good. Etc. Coraline algae growing everywhere. Without any additional dosing from Baking Soda, my alk will fall to 2.5 -3.0 Meq/L, and using just top off water of vinegar / limewater.

Just wondering what the eventual consequences are? I've been debating a dosing pump for alk, but, I haven't determined if the cost is justified.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Demand drops off as alk lowers for several reasons, not least of which is that it becomes progressively harder for corals to calcify as alk drops from 7 dKH. What effects they show from this stress will probably vary tremendously based on the species involved, other stressors, etc.

 

[Costazul]

My metering pump matches the evaporation just fine (0.65g/day), the reason to try Kalk/Vinager is because of its stability and for sure the lower cost. :reading:

I will let the system run in Kalk/Vinager (no other supplements) for 1 week, until it gets a Cal/Alk floor. In any case, if the tank is unable to keep over Cal 400, Alk 7.00, I will go back to 2-part dosing.

I don’t want to continue repeating testing/dosing, if it takes more than once a week.

Testing is costly, plus maintenance = “Not Fun!” :headwally:

 

[Lavoisier]

Have you seen this article yet?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Quite interesting and might help with your calc.

 

[Costazul]

Yes, I used recipe#1 (BRS calcium chloride and Ash & Hammer for ALK) as minimum of purity grade.
Kalk is more cost efficient, if able to keep the demand/stability at least weekly with little help of 2-part.

 

[Lavoisier]

Yes, I used recipe#1 (BRS calcium chloride and Ash & Hammer for ALK) as minimum of purity grade.
Kalk is more cost efficient, if able to keep the demand/stability at least weekly with little help of 2-part.

Thank you for this thread. Your question and this thread are very helpful to me as I move toward keeping SPS and my need to understand the chemistry of my tank more thoroughly, and get by on a very tight budget!

I may have misunderstood but were you attempting to stop two part dosing and seeking to maintain calc/alk with top off Kalk/vinegar, then finding it was not adequate for alk range? I was attempting to do this and have not been able to maintain my alk above 8.

However, as I was reading Randy's article I noticed the following concerning Recipe #2 (and wondered if you have ever tried #2 or did you find #1 adequate for 2part dosing?):

"Recipe #2 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is on the high side (above 8.3 or so). It will have a very small pH lowering effect when initially added. The pH drop achieved will depend on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity drops the pH by about 0.04 pH units immediately upon its addition.

If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe may be the best choice. It is half as concentrated as Recipe #1 because the raw baking soda is less soluble because it's unbaked."

 

[Costazul]

Hi,

The Randy's recipe #1 rocks. It was dosed with a metering pump 24/7 (90ml/Day).

In my case PH is not an issue with Kalk (8.3 day/8.00 Night)

I have not given up with Kalk yet, until further testing and tweaking is done with Mag and Evaporation. I still need to know where the Cal/Alk will keep steady.

 

[Costazul]

Please, high Cal/Alk demand keepers with kalkwasser only, share your experience /method and how you maximise kalk to keep the demand in check.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think there are any big tricks, aside from possible vinegar in the limewater to make it 50% more concentrated.

Otherwise, when demand is high you just need additional methods.

 

[skunkmere]

im in the same boat, im running a kalk reactor with my top off and every week i need to use 180ml of 2 part, im going to switch to super saturated kalk w/ vinegar and see if it maintains my levels. alot people use a calcium reactor with kalk.

 

[Costazul]

Thanks Randy,
Precisely, that point “where?” or “how long?” other method is required to keep the demand. I like the experienced one share with us. I like to know what to expect from my Kalk only tank. Is it viable? I know heavy demanding (Cal/Alk) tank are using it. Please share!

sorry, my english is crazy! lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have always used only limewater, but my tank is not SPS heavy and at the moment has very little.

But with SPS, expect to have to use some two part as well.

 

[tmz]

I wondering how some SPS Keeper can maintain their tank full of SPS colonies with just Kalk and some alk weekly. I still am missing something, perhaps Mag.

Hi HighlandReefer, Oh teaspoons thanks.


My tanks are heavy in sps.
Limewater and water changes of about 40% per month total with a high calcium and magnesium salt( Coral Life) do it all(mag1450ppm, calcium around 500ppm and alk usually 8.9 to 9.6 dkh, ph currently 8.16 to 8.28 daily swing with a little help from a CO2 scrubber) with a weekly tweak via a tablespoon of baked baking soda to make up for kalk dosing downtime when remixing.
There are no special tricks and I sometimes wonder why I don't need more alk but growth is good and coral health is fine.
I have a large water volume ,about 600gals but about 350 is heavily stocked with sps corals and another 90 with lps. .
I dose vodka and vinegar , moderately but separately from the limewater. Maybe the acetate has something to do with it.
I'm careful to dose only clear limewater from a still reservoir 24 /7 via a peristaltic pump with an internal timer that delivers it in 150 equal increments over 24 hours. . Top off is only about 4 gallons(16 liters ) per day or at least that's where I set the liter meter pump which was calibrated some measured some time ago.

 

[tmz]

So, we talk about what levels should be... What are the "effects" of low alk on corals? I mean are we talking instant death within a week? Recession over a period of months... Slower growth, but no die off?

IME, it can be dramatically bad for sps and some lps when the alk drops into the 5 and 6 dkh range.Stn,recession and in some cases loss of the specimen .